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On a lot of my own tracks, I generally end up layering 2-3 or more Snares, depending on where they hit on the frequency range and just how much snap I'm looking for. Generally I do the following (but not always in the same order):

1. Find a low snare that sits well, has very little high frequency data
2. Find a mid snare that hits around the 500hz mark. This is where a lot of the "thump" comes from
3. Find a clap or a very high snare (usually with frequency data well above 3khz)
4. EQ each of the snares individually so that the low is low-passed, the mid is band-passed and the high... you get the point
5. Add a very tiny amount of distortion - more dry than wet
6. Limit/compress
7. Bounce down and reimport
8. Add reverb

However, I've also got 2 tracks where the single sample was enough and I just eq'd it a little and added some reverb. It really depends on the sound you're after.

I also tend to play with the volumes of each individual snare depending on what kind of groove I'm going for. In deeper tracks, with rim shots or claps, they're generally a bit louder than the rest of the snare samples.

Wrigzilla wrote:Ok wikum here some things you can do to combat phase cancellation.

- Make sure that the snare samples are starting at the same time (ie line up the transients exactly, if you take a look at the waveforms of some random snare samples you'll notice that they don't all start at the same time).

- Invert the phase of one of them

- Make sure all the snares you're using are tuned to the same note (so say you're using two snares one with a huge peak at 200hz and the other at 180hz, this could end up with phase cancellation).


As for how to check it, use your ears: if the combined sound is weaker than the individual sounds then chances are phase cancellation is at play; is the snare sounds smeared or messy then again it could be phase cancellation. Try loading up two instances of the same snare in seperate tracks and move one subtly out of time with the other, that's what phasing sound like.

As a side note lowering the volume of one snare will not eliminate cancellation (with the classic two sines exapmle, if you change the volume of one then you'll start to hear stuff again, but there's still cancellation going on). I could get really technical and mathsy about this but noone wants to hear that.

agreed, good post.

it happens when youve got a sound that is moving up from the center and one thats moving down from the center at the same time, its like asking a speaker cone to move backwards AND forwards at the same time, it cant do it, the result of the 2 together is that it sits still in the middle.

Like Wrigzilla I think is getting at, having them peak at different values might not be ideal. When Im layering stuff I look to match the spikes of both sounds, it helps them gel together so they dont sound like 2 distinctly different sounds playing at the same time. You might then hammer one with an eq so that it no longer has a spike there, but id try getting them tuned together to start and see how that works out. You could end up with a completely phased out little puff of noise, if that happens then as people have said, invert one of the snares and it should suddenly be hammering out as they exagerate eachothers oscilations rather than hinder them.

Project EX wrote:

jaydot wrote:A snare in my book should be fat and reverbed

really depends on the type of tune imo

Agreed. I've been working on a tune with a real hip-hop feel recently, and my snares are a lot calmer than usual.

thanks for the tips on the phase issue guys...and more importantly, the tuning part. up until recently i did all my beats in audio tracks. i didn't tune them because the pitch correction plugin i've got doesn't sound very good. also, i always used to get mixed/shitty/buggy results with logic's built in time and pitch machine.


so from now on i'll try doing it the way you guys mention and use stylus rmx or kontakt for my drums.

one thing though..can someone recommend me a good pitch correction plugin (AU not VST) that's simple and sounds like it should? i know there are lots of them, just the ones i've tried all sound shit imo. i still would like to work with audio files if i could. i just find it more fun. i've actually been meaning to ask the forum this question for a while.

Soundcloud

This imo is the best snare I've had on my tracks possibly, and all it took from the original sample was maybe some snare reverb and EQing. So I agree with the people that say you've got to have the right sample to start with; like I think it's Skream says in that interview-there's only so much processing you can do.

jaydot wrote:Soundcloud

This imo is the best snare I've had on my tracks possibly, and all it took from the original sample was maybe some snare reverb and EQing. So I agree with the people that say you've got to have the right sample to start with; like I think it's Skream says in that interview-there's only so much processing you can do.

sorry to say, but to me the snare sounds quite weak. Its got a lot of hiss like a 909 or 808 snare. But not much bottom end. I actually find disco snares the best as they have a nice peak at around 170hz for some bottom end.
Failing that I will also layer a kick, tuned to the same fundamental frequency of the lowest snare.

JemGrover wrote:RIm shots > Harsh white noise snares anyday

WAR TORN wrote:

JemGrover wrote:RIm shots > Harsh white noise snares anyday

this, and if you want to have something heavy go for ringy snares like "BANG", like donny or current value. their snares are obscene.

jaydot wrote:A lot of (even major producers) snares these days seem lazily processed. A snare in my book should be fat and reverbed and sound a little different to the others, even if you use a clap. If you listen to a lot of snares from major producers and amateurs alike you'll find that they do sound the same and a lot of the time are too weak. What makes a unique snare? How would I go about getting a nice fat sound apart from reverb, compression, EQ and layering and more importantly (newb question slightly) is layering a snare just a case of putting two or three of the same (or differerent) snares on top of each other? How do you make yours?

Well first time I paid as much attention to detail I should have been doing with regards to my drum kits was that tune I did 'tell me you love me'. If I remember right the snare in that is a basketball being smacked off the ground, an idea I stole from mistabishi, with a snare and some white noise, I added a little bit of reverb to help everything mash together a little better then resampled then added distortion and worked on EQing it. I spent about an hour getting that snare right. It went through a preposterous ammount of processing. I probs could have got the same sound just using the old amen snare, but I think mine has more punch and I was aiming for a slightly tamer Current Value-esque sound. I paid ridiculous attention to detail on that thing, when I added reverb and delay at the end I was literally changing each and re-changing each by a matter of miliseconds to get it right. I've been using similar methods since then and I think it's giving me good results. Or at least, the drum kits I'm using suit me more than they did previously. They're more personalised.

And yea, rim shots > white noise. Sick of hearing too much white noise in people's snares which are crushed into the background of tracks and have no punch. I think white noise is something to be used very sparingly.

In summary: It's worth spending time on each individual part of your drum kit, if nothing else, it adds a degree of personalization to your tune.

kaiori breathe wrote:And yea, rim shots > white noise. Sick of hearing too much white noise in people's snares which are crushed into the background of tracks and have no punch. I think white noise is something to be used very sparingly.

I agree, a little blast of white noise can give a nice sting to a snare but I hear it used on its own way too much in cheap sounding dubstep. I think one thing thats essential with them that doesnt happen as much as it should is actually shaping the hit so that is has an attack like a snare, so it has some snap too it rather than this little sheet of hiss that has no real punch. Layering those white noise style hits with real snares and shaping them with a volume envelope so they merge together can have some good results though, gives that extra bit of presence to snare in the high end. Im a big fan of eq boosting for snares to bring out the high end and the punch myself, Its very rare that Id use an eq boost on a melodic instrument but on drum hits I think it works well.

would you guys high pass your snares much? i find i'd cut about 100-135Hz off the low myself..

narrator wrote:would you guys high pass your snares much? i find i'd cut about 100-135Hz off the low myself..

I cut a little lower, usually around 80, i usually end up giving a little bump to the 100-130ish range.

kaiori breathe wrote:
In summary: It's worth spending time on each individual part of your drum kit, if nothing else, it adds a degree of personalization to your tune.

couldn't agree more

i'd take it a step further and say it's worth spending lots of time on each invidual bit of your track.. in this way your personality will come across much better, which is what people really listen for in tunes (i feel)

also i would say above all else
don't use the same snares on every damn track... what started as a fresh sound will get tired quick

layering..compression..reverb..fast delay..distortion..EQ..

That's about all I ever add onto a snare and just play with it till it sounds how I want. Sometimes I'll layer weird percussion/FX sounds on top if it adds to it nicely. All about playing around really.. I've made snares out of hats before.

layering snares, overrated or necessary?

Project EX wrote:

jaydot wrote:A snare in my book should be fat and reverbed

really depends on the type of tune imo, ambient oriented stuff won't need a in yo face snare etc.

Define ambient maybe...

but this is not always true I promise.

Wabberjocky wrote:layering snares, overrated or necessary?

overrated

narrator wrote:would you guys high pass your snares much? i find i'd cut about 100-135Hz off the low myself..

I usually set the reverb up on a send, then bus it and the original together, so I can eq my verb's seperate (yeah jfk you turned me onto this with his soundcloud comments ) then I roll off about the bottom 100-125 for good luck on the bus.

Worth noting : this is also nice becuase as long as you dont put any transient shape/comp/limit on that original+reverb bus, you can send small amounts of claps/rims/clicky hihats/woodblocks/ect/ect. too the reverb as a bit of glue. Prolly not great practice. But.... ears.

symmetricalsounds wrote:

Wabberjocky wrote:layering snares, overrated or necessary?

overrated

Disagree. Depends on the track.

amphibian wrote:

symmetricalsounds wrote:

Wabberjocky wrote:layering snares, overrated or necessary?

overrated

Disagree. Depends on the track.

i'm not saying layered snares isn't right sometimes, but as a technique i think it's definitely overrated and i would rather spend the time to find one sample that kills it than trying to put together a few.