...enough with the limiters..

[diagrams]

Limiting where you need to to control peaks - use your ears to avoid losing the dynamics of the sounds
a decent limiter is insanely helpful and can be used anywhere in the signal chain

[deadly_habit]

well this is more about brickwall limiting and pushing the signal through them which results in those squashed dynamic square wave mixes
and static cast is on the money, most dance music isn't exactly about detailed dynamics and subtlety when in regards to a club environment

[back2onett]

really severe limiting can sound pretty interesting on percussion busses (by percussion I mean all drums except for kick and snare)

[borrowed]

So what you're saying is, that if Smells like teen spirit came out today, it would still sound like shit?

[deadly_habit]

So what you're saying is, that if Smells like teen spirit came out today, it would still sound like shit?

0/10

[chewie]

That does sound pretty horrible but isn't that the original master smashed into a brick wall limiter with well over 6db gain reduction? It's bound to sound like shit

[ajfa]

I think the relevance of the loudness war to dancefloor-based EDM is really overstated, to be honest, for two reasons:

1) Dancefloor EDM is, by its very nature, quite uniform in level anyway -- there's not much dynamic range to suck out. On the whole, "contrast" in EDM comes more from timbre than peak level. You're making tracks whose wobble bass is meant to be as loud as the wobble bass on the next track, no more, no less. It's not like you're destroying the energy of the chorus coming in from the verse. Of course, there are exceptions -- lots of shitty mainroom techno and electro being made where the breakdown is so compressed that you can barely hear the kick coming back in -- but IMHO it's not such a common problem. And if clubs had better soundsystems (which is really the issue here) you could master as quietly as you wanted and just turn it up at the DJ mixer (see point 2).

2) No matter how loud you master your track, on all but the best soundsystems it's probably gonna be hitting a limiter at the end of the chain anyway. Often better to make this happen at the mastering stage -- where the limiters used will probably be quite good -- than in the club, where they're probably running shit through a Behringer.

On the whole, though, I don't limit very much.

I've always wondered about this, having not played live yet. If you're playing a bunch mastered tunes, and they're peaking just below the red on the mixer, then you go to play one of your own unmastered tunes, which needs to be say 4dB louder to match the perceived loudness of other tunes, it would result in the mixer now being around 4dB into the red (above zero). Is this going to cause it sound like shit as soon as you redline, or is the club limiter going to be at say like +6 or something, giving you some headroom to work with?

[Sharmaji]

extremely pro-limiter here. limit the stuff that doesn't need dynamic range, so that you can make the cool stuff really pop out.

[narcissus]

my ableton projects are riddled with limiters
they're so damn useful
love the release setting too

[AllNightDayDream]

Uh, noobie question here... This is about compression, right?

[deadly_habit]

Uh, noobie question here... This is about compression, right?

limiters are just compressors with a ratio of 10:1 or higher

[staticcast]

I think the relevance of the loudness war to dancefloor-based EDM is really overstated, to be honest, for two reasons:

1) Dancefloor EDM is, by its very nature, quite uniform in level anyway -- there's not much dynamic range to suck out. On the whole, "contrast" in EDM comes more from timbre than peak level. You're making tracks whose wobble bass is meant to be as loud as the wobble bass on the next track, no more, no less. It's not like you're destroying the energy of the chorus coming in from the verse. Of course, there are exceptions -- lots of shitty mainroom techno and electro being made where the breakdown is so compressed that you can barely hear the kick coming back in -- but IMHO it's not such a common problem. And if clubs had better soundsystems (which is really the issue here) you could master as quietly as you wanted and just turn it up at the DJ mixer (see point 2).

2) No matter how loud you master your track, on all but the best soundsystems it's probably gonna be hitting a limiter at the end of the chain anyway. Often better to make this happen at the mastering stage -- where the limiters used will probably be quite good -- than in the club, where they're probably running shit through a Behringer.

On the whole, though, I don't limit very much.

I've always wondered about this, having not played live yet. If you're playing a bunch mastered tunes, and they're peaking just below the red on the mixer, then you go to play one of your own unmastered tunes, which needs to be say 4dB louder to match the perceived loudness of other tunes, it would result in the mixer now being around 4dB into the red (above zero). Is this going to cause it sound like shit as soon as you redline, or is the club limiter going to be at say like +6 or something, giving you some headroom to work with?

I generally do a "home mastering" job on anything I want to play out that isn't properly mastered -- this generally involves little more than a limiter to get the track a bit closer to the perceived level of released tracks, and *maybe* a little EQ (but rarely, since I tend to just fix EQ problems in the mix anyway, to the extent that my room and monitoring setup allows). In practice, club limiters can hit anywhere, amps can clip anywhere, speakers can bottom out anywhere. Generally the limiter won't hit at 0dB, but it could be +3, +6, +9, or in fact well beyond the clipping point of the mixer. Sometimes the amps will clip at +6, sometimes the soundsystem's beefy enough that you'll deafen everyone before the amp even breaks into a sweat. It's kinda moot anyway, as decibel readings on club mixers are often skewed (the output is usually quieter than expected -- presumably either because they're running at -10 consumer levels instead of +4, or deliberately in order to allow the DJ to redline without clipping).

I've always figured the best plan is to get your unfinished tracks as close as possible in both timbre and level to the ones you'll be playing them alongside, otherwise they'll stand out when you play them in a club (and probably not in a good way). If that means ragging them through a limiter because they're not mastered yet, I generally just go for it. I also find that extreme limiting can sometimes be quite an effective litmus test of a balanced mix -- the limiter might audibly squash down peaks that you wouldn't have noticed otherwise, or audibly distort if you've got too much sub, etc.

[gravity]

limiters are useful just dont over do them

alway stick a limiter on my drum bus

although saying that ive been using elephant set to clip mode so i guess its actually distorting rather than limiting which often sounds a bit better to my ears

clipping is actually well good ive decided, after years of shying away from it ive got well into it. although to be fair i have been clipping with outboard which actually seems to improve things a bit.

[staticcast]

limiters are useful just dont over do them

alway stick a limiter on my drum bus

although saying that ive been using elephant set to clip mode so i guess its actually distorting rather than limiting which often sounds a bit better to my ears

clipping is actually well good ive decided, after years of shying away from it ive got well into it. although to be fair i have been clipping with outboard which actually seems to improve things a bit.

OT, but your sig tune is sick

[gravity]

limiters are useful just dont over do them

alway stick a limiter on my drum bus

although saying that ive been using elephant set to clip mode so i guess its actually distorting rather than limiting which often sounds a bit better to my ears

clipping is actually well good ive decided, after years of shying away from it ive got well into it. although to be fair i have been clipping with outboard which actually seems to improve things a bit.

OT, but your sig tune is sick

ta love!

[JBE]

That video looks like they limited the entire final recording. Is it really the same if you use limiters on certain elements of a track though? I like to use limiters on my snares. I really only seem to use them on that but I've used a limiter on other things like a wonky hat that had a bit more peak than I really wanted. I really don't think limiters are bad, I just think maybe they shouldn't be used on a full mixdown.

[Basic A]

That video looks like they limited the entire final recording. Is it really the same if you use limiters on certain elements of a track though? I like to use limiters on my snares. I really only seem to use them on that but I've used a limiter on other things like a wonky hat that had a bit more peak than I really wanted. I really don't think limiters are bad, I just think maybe they shouldn't be used on a full mixdown.

No no, its totally different, limiters in a creative context on the usses are FINE.

Its these botched up poor excuses for mixdowns where they slam all the faders to 0 and then stick six comps and a limiter on the master that I was ranting about.

[AllNightDayDream]

Uh, noobie question here... This is about compression, right?

limiters are just compressors with a ratio of 10:1 or higher

I swear I learn more shit here in a day than I do in any tutorial

[narcissus]

which is why i hang out here

[macc]

limiters in a creative context on the busses are FINE.

Its these botched up poor excuses for mixdowns where they slam all the faders to 0 and then stick six comps and a limiter on the master that I was ranting about.