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people ignoring a market is going to be their own downfall, not a generations
if the riaa and entertainment industries had spent as much time developing a new business model rather than pursuing individuals pirating material they wouldn't be in the state they are and playing catch up as is
also any label not catering to the digital market at this point is kind of shooting themselves in the foot from a business point of view

When I first got into dubstep I bought a few cds and then realised everything was on wax or digital! So then I just nigelled everythin!! Now though I buy all my tunes on wax or digital - just completely swapped! Torrents and other shit just fuck up your computer with viruses, stealing from an underground music scene isn't really helping either! Don't have much against nigelling I just hope after a while, people who have cash to spend would eventually just pay up to the people who work hard (most of the time) on making & distributing music! I mean if nobody bought Numbers releases then there's a good chance Glasgow would'nt have had Girl Unit, Joker & James Blake all on the same night!

i'm talking about the larger issue of filesharing. the longterm impact. the generational impact. not formats, or what the content is. i was lucky to get passed down a collection of vinyl from my uncle and parents. i cherish that because i know all the love they put into it. the time, the caring and storing of it, the history, etc. i know that music is not important in other families, and i'm thankful that i was so fortunate. its got fuck all to do with how much its worth in money terms. its about the ritual of music, the value of creativity. the value of history.

if you grow up in a world where your sphere of interest revolves around what content you can get on any given day without paying for it, that means your value system by default is totally built on self-interest. filesharing on the one hand has influenced the planet, and the way people exchange information. on the other side, its going to totally fuck up artistic value forever.

i'm not saying stop filesharing, as its everyone's personal choice, but this pride in filesharing is pure self-interest and glutton.

seckle wrote:pride in filesharing is pure self-interest and glutton.

Indeed.

at the point when the label is not seeing any more money the content is the same in any format. if you're going to say filesharing is the problem i'd say the 2nd hand vinyl/cassette/cd market is equally as damaging as you get a bunch of assholes who could care less about the music but the money they can get reselling later on when it comes to wax and such.
personally save a few instances that i cited before i find em both despicable for the most part and like i said no real leg to stand on, but with so many labels being slow on the uptake to adapt, filesharing is going to continue to thrive.
big ups to the labels doing it proper with download cards or vouchers included when you buy the physical mediums

I barely ever torrent music, but if anyone on this forum can put there hand up and say they have never downloaded a album or track illegally, they are either weird or a liar lol. Its the age we live in today really isn't it. But of course art should be valued and paid for, in a ideal situation.

I can understand a man stealing food to feed his starving family, but what can justify stealing wares for personal entertainment? When you steal artists works, you're stealing from the mouths of the artist.

Having the latest movie or album isn't a basic need for survival. People try to justify their reasoning for illegal downloads all the time. Follow your conscious... its wrong and thats just that. I despise piracy!

I am proud to be a part of a generation where the monetary value of art is diminishing. No other time in history could you become so well acquainted with global culture so instantaneously. Imagine all the things you wouldn't know, wouldn't experience if it wasn't for this community of free information.

If you can actually make a living off of creating art, you're a beast. You are serving society by filling venues with seats and increasing the flow of capital. Your music resonates with plenty of people and you will get paid, mildly. But if you're crankin out tunes (that you're supposed to enjoy making) with steady releases and whining about not getting paid than you're missing the entire point of art. If any of you read marx, tunes have zero use-value. They benefit society in no material way. They are imagined ideas, and if you think of ideas as property than you are completely out of touch and serve to feed a greedy capitalist machine that kills creativity and invites conformity. Just be glad you're a musician and can actually attach your name to your work.

Take this idea to its ends. I know most of you are dirty fucking hipsters and will hate on anything that gets decent exposure or doesn't fit your fake "musical" standards. Strict pop fans are generally not gonna give a fuck about supporting an artist. All these big names everyone's grown to hate, like Britney Spears, Lil Wayne, Kesha, etc. are all losing money. They can only make money by touring constantly and doing stupid commercials and shit. So in this world of free art, who is going to generate any kind of cash? That would be the artists who make a real connection to their fans, especially with their music. Great music speaks for itself. First time I listened to bassnectar I was like "Wow. This dude is something else". His albums without a doubt influenced my personal life, musical tastes, and inspired me to pick up producing again. That's why I went to his shows (had the time of my life), bought 2 hard-copies of albums I already "stole" and bought a "basshead" beanie on top of it. The next time I go to a show of his, i'm gonna get another hardcopy, maybe a poster, cause I fuckin love the guy.

This is the beginning of the best era for music since the 60's. Pop is dying, and becoming less of a relevant term. Real artists are coming out of the woodwork and gaining exposure, getting their tunes played out, their name heard. Music itself is evolving. Our instant-noodle society is so numbed from all the stimulus that you have to really resonate with them to stand out at all. And this isn't just about music, it's about absolutely everything. It's about who controls all the information on our planet. This is about finishing what the hippies started. This is what the mayans were talking about when they said the world will never be the same. This is our revolution.

I'm gonna regret posting this when i'm sober

seckle wrote: on the other side, its going to totally fuck up artistic value forever.

i

rly?

AllNightDayDream wrote:I'm gonna regret posting this when i'm sober

Hahaha, jokes post. Love it though.

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Feel like this is a dumb question, but is dubstep torrentable? Seems like the most interesting tracks aren't even released... let alone torrentable. Hahaha, if I'm wrong about that I'd like to know.

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This isn't my position, but it is a thought: It's not really stealing if you wouldn't have bought it anyway. What? Like, if you're walking down the street, and there are stacks of cd's, you take one, like I'll listen to this, that's not stealing. But you see an album that you want, and it's $10 and you go to pay and instead they say, no take it it is free. If you take it without paying you are stealing. WHAT?

AllNightDayDream wrote:I am proud to be a part of a generation where the monetary value of art is diminishing.

so according to that thinking, people that spends thousands of dollars on recording equipment, mastering, publicity, should just shut up and do it all for free, because you've decided that you're entitled to ride on the back of their hard work. producers and label owners owe you fucking nothing. never ever forget that.

AllNightDayDream wrote:They can only make money by touring constantly and doing stupid commercials and shit.

and why is it that they can't make money on creating music without having to perform it? because people like you have been conditioned into thinking that music is yours for the taking, and that it hurts no one, and its all ones and zeros flying in the air. i know so many people in this scene that don't want to tour, and want to stay in the studio and just be studio musicians. they can't because everyone feels entitled to fucking everything. the whole music business has shifted into the performance business, and i'm sorry but thats not progress, thats regression.

AllNightDayDream wrote: Real artists are coming out of the woodwork and gaining exposure, getting their tunes played out, their name heard.

yeah, and fuck them if they want to get any money back for all their blood sweat and tears. fuck them and their creative ideas, because your brand new hard drive needs filling.




what i love about threads like this is the lengths at which people will go to justify not paying for things. you cheap pricks.

people will spend £4/$7 for a beer thats consumed in about 10mins, but won't spend £1.75 on an mp3 that will last forever? if you find £100 pounds on the floor besides someones feet, do you ask the person if its their's, or do you just claim it as yours because you saw it on the ground?

the people arent loosing money from me torrenting music. if i wasnt to download it then i wouldnt be able to get it in the first place, so theres no money to loose from me

i like this too:

AllNightDayDream wrote: But if you're crankin out tunes (that you're supposed to enjoy making) with steady releases and whining about not getting paid than you're missing the entire point of art.

most of the money these days is playing live anyway i swear?

seckle wrote:people will spend £4/$7 for a beer thats consumed in about 10mins, but won't spend £1.75 on an mp3 that will last forever? if you find £100 pounds on the floor besides someones feet, do you ask the person if its their's, or do you just claim it as yours because you saw it on the ground?

if beer was available to download i would download it my good man

I download everything that I can, but I consider it wrong and I don't justify it.

When I do have spare cash, it all goes to music, though.

64hz wrote:i torrent a shitload but also buy a shitload

this to a certain extent. i go through stages of buying loads and loads then download a lot. tends to be dub, reggae and hip hop that i download mainly though.


i have often thought that if the vinyl is sold out at online store and you have to go to say discogs, the artist won't get any money so i dont think its too bad to download for free.

no money means mo downloads

seckle wrote:

AllNightDayDream wrote:I am proud to be a part of a generation where the monetary value of art is diminishing.

so according to that thinking, people that spends thousands of dollars on recording equipment, mastering, publicity, should just shut up and do it all for free, because you've decided that you're entitled to ride on the back of their hard work. producers and label owners owe you fucking nothing. never ever forget that.
People can pursue money all they want, but going out of your way to spend thousands of dollars on equipment and services thinking that that's going to GUARANTEE you any kind of return is just foolish. I don't "ride" anyone's work. No one is making mad profit on other people's work anymore, that's what large labels were for. We're just here to enjoy music. Legally, you as the copyright holder can hold anyone accountable for stealing your "intellectual property". If other people listening to your tunes is such a travesty for you than go ahead and go after them. It's only going to hurt your chances of gaining exposure and making any cash.

AllNightDayDream wrote:They can only make money by touring constantly and doing stupid commercials and shit.

and why is it that they can't make money on creating music without having to perform it? because people like you have been conditioned into thinking that music is yours for the taking, and that it hurts no one, and its all ones and zeros flying in the air. i know so many people in this scene that don't want to tour, and want to stay in the studio and just be studio musicians. they can't because everyone feels entitled to fucking everything. the whole music business has shifted into the performance business, and i'm sorry but thats not progress, thats regression.
It really isn't, it's just not what you're used to. If you're going to quit your dayjob thinking you can live off of being a studio musician, then either you better be makin some sweet shit or you have poor judgement. Simply constructing art shouldn't be a business, unless being a successful business is your ultimate goal. This is a bi-product of the internet. The rules have changed. If you create art, it WILL be displayed. The world is a dense urban jungle and we're just bombers. If you're trying to make mad cash, sell sneakers or something.

AllNightDayDream wrote: Real artists are coming out of the woodwork and gaining exposure, getting their tunes played out, their name heard.

yeah, and fuck them if they want to get any money back for all their blood sweat and tears. fuck them and their creative ideas, because your brand new hard drive needs filling.This isn't the stock market. Artists shouldn't be here to make investments. Simple as that. Society has devised a new, efficient way of distributing art for whatever tastes. It's the same argument as the old-school dj's (bless their hearts) getting pissed because vinyl is becoming more obsolete when it comes to mixing live. Days of old are gone and society is taking a new shape. It's not impossible to earn a living making art. We've just created a new standard.

and like people are saying, not too many people have libraries that are 100% pirated, it's really a matter of how much money you've got. I'll admit I've snatched a good amount of tunes, but I've thrown down cash on plenty of acts, too.

and yet again, nobody has come up with a solution for the music piracy era.

it's just interesting to watch the back & forth between those against piracy vs those who pirate....always a defensive/offensive argument (and rightfully so). but this us vs them attitude is the reason why the industry has failed to develop any sort of solution for this. the moral high road only goes so far.