Chords in relation to scale?

[brex]

Honestly the easiest way to understand this stuff is to learn an instrument...i was just like you when i first started producing, i didnt understand any of the theory and eventually i got so frustrated i just gave up. I started playing guitar and the theory was so much easier to learn, its one thing to read definitions but playing an instrument really helps to hear and understand it. After playing guitar for about two years i started producing again and things were so much easier.

its not all about technical knowledge...dont forget we are to make music
i feel like alot of electronic music producers miss that

[mks]

Just make sure you stay in the key

I know what you are trying to say man, , but please, I invite you to move to other keys. So much electronic music just stays in one key with no movement. Even the basslines will just be one or two note basslines.

its not all about technical knowledge...dont forget we are to make music
i feel like alot of electronic music producers miss that

In my best Teal'c voice "Indeed" (semi-obscure reference).

As far as chords in relation to scale, perhaps think of the chord of the moment that you are in, and try to find a scale to go with that chord. So if you move from an A minor to G minor for a movement, find the scale that would go good with the G minor when you get there. Find the notes the two chords have alike (and the ones that don't). In this instance, only the Bb is different in the G minor from the A minor.

Try to think about your arrangements, and moving your chords around to different instruments. So if your bass is playing the root, have other instruments fill out the rest of the chord. I tried to speak on this a bit here:

http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=127579

Someone put a circle of 5th's chart in this thread. I have been trying to tell people to learn it going to the left, as this will give you a basic understanding of harmony. This was talked about this week here:

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=179147

And the original thread here:

http://www.dubstepforum.com/post1655945.html

There is a bunch more I could write about, but perhaps it is good to stop here.



EZ

[decklyn]

Yes yes! Absolutely.
Don't be afraid to go a couple spots away on the circle of fifths too - you will find your scales shrink but it sounds rad.
Read the blog http://www.decklyn.com - this applies to mixing as well as production.
Articles for using both are on http://www.decklyn.com.
Just try it out - you'll see once you start working.

You can see a key change in this track - later in the tune it flips back and fourth.
Soundcloud

[therzbm]

Honestly the easiest way to understand this stuff is to learn an instrument...i was just like you when i first started producing, i didnt understand any of the theory and eventually i got so frustrated i just gave up. I started playing guitar and the theory was so much easier to learn, its one thing to read definitions but playing an instrument really helps to hear and understand it. After playing guitar for about two years i started producing again and things were so much easier.

its not all about technical knowledge...dont forget we are to make music
i feel like alot of electronic music producers miss that

yeh thats what i have been trying to do lol i hope im not giving off the impression im just someone who has cracked a copy of fruity loops and thinks that some music theory knowledge will make me a sick producer ha ive been trying to focus on theory from now on and to expand my skills in all forms of music as im going to uni in september to hopefully do sound engineering or music technology.

cheers for all the responses. just out of interest, is it better to learn piano or guitar for production, cause i always thought knowing piano would be more useful as DAWs are based around MIDI and keyboards, but i have also been told guitar is good to understand (i did play guitar like 6 years ago but only for a few months ) i have considered taking piano lessons or something else to help my music theory, but work full time at the moment so will have to wait i guess

[koro inu]

seriously suggest anyone making music watch this documentary (the whole thing, if you can find it).

it explains chords/scales and all music (essentially) in a non-geek and open way. really good and shows you that a certain amount is natural.

[MexicanKangaroo]

T S D
I IV V
VI II VII
III __ III

Now, this scheme is very important. In classical music, you can only go right or under when you're writing chord sequences. In pop music it's more free, but still, there are some things you can use:
- a T chord is the most important one, almost all music finishes with the I, and all the rest with a III or a VI. (that makes it a bit more interesting)
- a D chord is called dominant, because it will, together with the T, define the scale to the listener. This is very important, popular music is popular because it is a little bit predictive, you always have a little idea about the chord that is coming next. Well, when you use a D chord (especially V), you're almost certain that a T chord (mostly I) will follow on it. This is normally how a song ends, but it's used in the middle of the song a lot too. We call scale determinating scales "cadenses" (i think).
- a SD chord is subdominant, because it is mostly followed by a D chord (or another SD chord). When a T chord is followed by a SD, that also gives it a strong feeling that it's progressing, unlike when it stays in the same cathegory.

Haha, I was wondering when some serious theory was going to come up, most of these scales was bringing back the good ol' days of primary school piano lessons.... I wouldn't mind if you elaborated a bit more, seems like you have a decent amount of knowledge on this topic. I not exactly understanding the chart, what does the underscore at in the centre, bottom row.

Anyways, to answer the topic... there's not really any definite 'structure' or process with chords unless you want to make a song that sounds like pop or like another song. Chords are really a combination of 3-4 notes of the key you're in (with the odd accidentals, or black key)... for example C. there's an infinite amount of chords that can be made, it's the chord progression that makes it musical. I can't really tell you what to do so the chord progression sounds right... but one way I find that works a lot is if you start with a basic minor chord... such as C E-flat G, and you change the chord by moving one note to another note in the same scale (generally). So you could move the G in the previous chord to an A-flat, which is part of the C minor scale. And you repeat the process, and eventually you'll find a nice set of chords. Just make sure you stay in the key

its amazing how as much as you can look up on theory and production, and learn and work out for yourself, there will still be millions of little tricks and tips that seem obvious when you get shown or told about them, but you just never thought of it yourself lol guess that is the joy of music, you will forever be learning and thinking up new shit (unless you make brostep)

Heh, true that. I don't brostep particularly has a limit to new shit and learning. Dubstep focuses more on the musical side, while brostep is more of a producing and technical focus... Sound design is one of those things I love.

Oh, and by staying in key... I don't exactly mean it has to stay in the specific tonal scale. Just as someone mentioned above, a lot of edm remains in the same scale with no transposition whatsover, to the extent which the tune is literally one note (a lot of brostep does this, admittedly...) Chuck in some accidentals, as long as it sounds good. It is music, there isn't a formula to everything. Ears are handy.