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Times are changing. End of.

Had this discussion on the breakbeat forum the other day.

Beat-matching is now redundant. Why bother going through the hassle of beat-matching when you can put more time into putting on a better show with faster mixing, EQ controller, cross fader control, effects, loops, samples?

If the technology is there, use it. How many of you record TV on Sky+ or use the iPlayer or 4od instead of using VHS?

Some people need to get out of the dark ages and embrace the technology, instead of risking getting shot down by your peers cause "your not saying true to your roots and using vinyls".

I dont have a problem with vinyls, in fact I can use vinyl's and quite ofter I use (timecoded) vinyl's when I play out or practise at home.

But if I want to put on a better show for the crowd, then I'd stick to my Serato and CDJ's.

But for pre-matching beats, I'm not keen on this at all. Otherwise your just being iTunes on stage!

PRE-beatmatching tunes???

WHAT THE HELL. GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!!!!

If you were playing my event and i caught on to you. I'd pull you off the mixer in front of everyone, you phony.
Tons of other great DJs have taken the time to learn to beatmatch properly, so don't be surprised when ppl stop booking your cheating ass and get any of the other HUNDREDS of DJs waiting in line for your spot.

woh... you gotta be really ignorant to have even posted this on the forum.
you've got balls. big DUMB balls.

that is all.

yes, I don't think anyone is really arguing the fact that progress is good to a certain extent. But what this guy is suggesting is a lame way of putting a mix together before you even play out. His excuse for wanting to be correct to 0.1 BPM's is invalid. Granted, Traktor doesn't read beatgrids at all, in fact it is shamefully how bad it reads beatgrids and deduces BPM's. For such a popular program, it really could do with some improvements.

But look at VDJ, that program generally gets BPM's correct as well as the beatgrid. You can always make your own beatgrids (although that is a bit of a time consumer). When you have your BPM's in front of you, it takes you about 3 seconds to get it right if you want to use the pitch controller for a natural feel, or just press SYNC (they way I suppose most DJ's do it, and granted it's convenient). There can't be a more accurate and time-efficient way so just drop that argument.

I assume he was using mixmeister or some other subpar baby program and was having issues with the automatic BPM synchroniser (it slows the bpm's down gradually, much like you're using a pitch controller) and therefore he got it in his mind that he could fix that using soundforge and alterating the BPM's... this will do you no good though. Unless you have some basic tracks which work with a set amount of Bars etc. but what if you have an intro or something?

Anyway, I think a set can't be just 140 bpm's for one / two hours straight. It will get boring very quick. You need to mix up the bpm's to keep it interesting, like move from 128 bpm's to 130 bpm's to 135 bpm's to 140 bpm's perhaps up to 170 bpm's. That's what I call DJ'ing, the equipment you use doesn't really matter to me, but much respect to the vinyl crew of course.

The problem is, software (or CDJ/Serate) dj'ing is convenient and it frees up time to focus on your selection...but why do more and more DJ's throw that all out of the window and just cue tracks on drops and go from one drop to another (CASPA is king at this btw) instead of mixing clean and taking your time (J:Kenzo for example)...this is beyond me...going from drop to drop is so D&B...

skanky wrote:lol.. lotta hate from the purists. i knew this would be taboo for some but ffs!

I play vinyls too, & I can beatmatch fine. But this is about ultra-precision, getting the tracks absolutely locked. I find with traditional beatmatching I can usually only get the speed to around 0.1% correct, which means I can't run the songs together as long as I would like. This "experiment" is to see if i can eliminate that 0.1% margin & hopefully hold the mix for longer without having to put hands on the record while it's playing

Look at it this way, people have paid money for the pleasure of seeing/hearing you mix, a skill which can sometimes take years to master. If I was a promoter and saw you just hitting play for the desire of being able to squeeze more tunes in or perform different kind of mixes because they 'wont stay locked' then I would suggest to keep practicing, as a DJ it is a bit of a cop out.

Just look at what happened to Mistabishi, relativly well known, album out on Hospital, whole road ahead of him.

Promoter caught him out that he wasnt beat matching and it was pretty highly publicised, and look at him now. Dont see Mistabishi on flyers any more do you?

Perhaps this is more of an argument for established artists especially considering the price that is paid for the pleasure of hearing someone 'big' mix. But still I personally dont think its a great look, just practice man, I understand the drive to be able to push things further and its great but I dont think it would be appreciated as much as its worth.

For what its worth within genres now most stuff is around the same BPM anyway so locking tunes in is getting quicker than ever.

Dont think im just pointing a finger at pre pitching tunes but in general removing the beat matching process as a whole (Traktor sync button etc) it is a bad thing.

Might as well just bring one premixed set on a cd and pretend to dj

It's rubbish, where is the skill of a dj when using beat syncing?!

Vinyl all the way.

hmmmm.. cheers 4 all the input guys. appreciated.

personally i think most of the skill is in song selection and timing rather than beatmatching

also i swear i have seen tons of big acts who never touched the pitch & no-one cared

then why do you need to pre mix your set?






....the fuck outta here...

more time to do other more creative stuff in the mix..? why not?? i don't know i've never actually done this it's just an idea I wanted to discuss enough blasting

I'd hit you if I saw you doing this.

So just selection and timing eh?

So if I use beat syncing software, download lots of unreleased dubs from torrents/rips from youtube, and just double drop everything I will be a better dj than I am now?

cheers for the heads up

skanky wrote:more time to do other more creative stuff in the mix..? why not?? i don't know i've never actually done this it's just an idea I wanted to discuss enough blasting

To be fair man, you have the right idea in trying to push what you do, focus energy on progression etc so hats off to you, perhaps beat matching isnt the answer your looking for but just keep trying to advance what your doing.

What creative stuff are you talking about here?? I can use EQs and effects while in the mix having not pre-beat matched my set. What other sorter stuff are you talking about?

chuck into abelton and warp them all to 140 lol
burn on cd
take to raev
press button at right time
quadruple dr0P
rave
fall over
lol

this is the reality



7 minutes and half a mix. Take back what you used to be mister. This is poor.
Big up the vinyl crew I suppose.

I guess with Caspa, one thing to remember is alot of his beats are all at 140 so theoretically the pitch wouldnt need to be touched

brokedjs wrote:I guess with Caspa, one thing to remember is alot of his beats are all at 140 so theoretically the pitch wouldnt need to be touched

no arguments there, but still, the last tune is about half mixed in. Let's say 10 seconds of mix, but then drop and boom. The others go from drop to drop, barely even using cross faders etc. . This is poor imo.

joeki wrote:this is the reality



7 minutes and half a mix. Take back what you used to be mister. This is poor.
Big up the vinyl crew I suppose.

skills

skanky wrote:Obviously this only works with pre-planned sets. The idea is to set all your tracks to the correct bpm beforehand so you can spend less time beatmatching/adjusting pitch & have faster, more precise cuts.
My concerns are loss of quality through the conversion process & the time it takes & method by which to actually figure out exactly by what percentage to extend or shorten a track.
Currently I'm setting the track to the desired speed in Trakor, timing & writing down the new length of the song, then time-stretching the song to the new length using Sound Forge. The whole process takes quite a while to process each track & I'm thinking that there must be an easier/more reliable way to do this.
Any of you djs out there done something like this before who can give me tips?

Not taking the piss but the quickest way would be to just learn to beatmatch lol

no problem with using ableton/traktor live etc but if your using CD's it is MUCH less time consuming to simply beatmatch, than to spend hours exporting to programmes/burning etc just to save you half a second in the rave

if roots soundsystems can use one deck and a siren then why the fuck not.
there are no rules...