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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:58 am
by pete_bubonic
LEQ wrote:Yeah I see that point, and I can agree in part that you do have to have a musical ear, I don't think that you need to be educated in sound though to be able to hear whats good and whats not, or whats goes with what., if you see what I mean....
yeah agree 100%
I'm not musically trained in the slightest, but I'd like to think my productions don't portray this!
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www.virb.com/forsaken
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:07 am
by LEQ
Ha, shameless...
Liking the Stuff with Ben Blackmore.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:09 am
by inspector
pete bubonic wrote:LEQ wrote:inspector wrote:LEQ wrote:inspector wrote:This may sound a bit harsh, but is you're not musical you really shouldn't dj. Unless of course you can get a job in an American prison camp spinning records as a means of torture (I heard they do that a lot).
Whether you want to be a DJ or not, it doesn't depend on whether you are musically minded, if you want to spin records, go for it. It shouldn't be about whether you understand harmonics or not, thats not the point, IMO.
Mate, that's exactly the attitude that makes Idol such a cool program to watch.
Well, from what I can gather from your post's, you attitude is the one that promotes intense chin stroking at the back of the room at a night, providing a much annoying running commentary on the technicalities of the DJ who's playing, trying to deconstruct each and every mix that he/she does. But hey, whatever floats your boat. John Peel was the one of the greatest DJ's I've had the pleasure of listening too, yet he couldn't mix for shit, would that have made him any less of a DJ in your point of view?
John Peel had an ear for music though. I believe also that if there isn't a musical bone in your body or you simply don't have that ear for music, chances are as a dj, you're going to be a bit crap. Don't stop you from spinning records in your bedroom, but if I pay to get into a dance I want to know the guys playing are going to be good. Dunno if that's the point the 'inspector' was making. But that's what I got for it. I know a few dancehall and roots selectors and they can't beat match for shit, but they have real musical ears and know good tunes and riddims, so they are still badmen.
Key mixing can be difficult, I have trouble identifying keys, but it is very easy to hear if two tunes go together. And the right amount of dissonance can sound rude as well as previously pointed out. it's not something I really concentrate hard on when I'm playing out, but it's very easy to tell if something is clashing over the headphones, so just pull the track off and try something else. Dubstep ain't that melodic and a lot does seemed to be based round the same keys and scales.
My point exactly.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:26 am
by spooKs
I only mix records that are in the key of B flat to be honest.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:35 am
by inspector
spooKs wrote:I only mix records that are in the key of B flat to be honest.
Me too. The problem is that I have to pitch some of them. So I bought a pitcher shifter and a key flattener. Bingo.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:16 pm
by ether
like many posting, i'm not musically trained and most of my knoledge on music theory has come from synthisis and reading up on acoustics.
so please correct me if im wrong...
our ears are used to hearing notes relitive to one another in pitch, in the case of western music this consists of a 12 semi tone scale, this is called musical temprement. some notes are sympathetic to one another some arnt.
when mixing records pitch adj actually controls the speed of the record with +/- values subsequently altering the 'pitch' though i suspect not enough though that our ears still cant hear relitive pitch and determine whether 1 track is out of key with another because our ears are used too hearing music based around the western scale.
when mixing i just listen for sympathetic tracks which i presume are in key with one another though its pure guess work.
the easiest way of training your ears is to make beats. after a while you just can hear which notes fit together and it aids your mixing a shedload imo.
Re: Keymixing
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:21 pm
by blk plague
ThinKing wrote:Identify (D1 on tempa)
ive found this tune very difficult to mix though i absolutely love it. anyone else?
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:35 pm
by randomhed
Ive got a key lock on my decks, never used it once but after reading this i may investigate a lil further.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:42 pm
by beatcarnival
so on this subject, MRK1 - Caveman Boogie + MRK1 - Devils & Angels not only keymix, but they're in the same rhythmic cadence as well. Really kind of like he made the same track twice, just with different sounds, so together they fit pretty well. Used that one on my first radio show, too
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:48 pm
by wascal
I've been big on keymixing for a while, all you need to do is sit down one afternoon and play every tune you own once at a certain bpm (say, 140bpm) and make a note of the key.
Doesn't mean you have to keymix every mix or even plan your sets either, it just means you can pull a sick double drop out of the bag every now and then. Preparedness. If you get in the habit of doing it every time you buy some 12"s its really no hassle, you're going to listen to your new records at home anyway so just stick on the click track and prod your keyboard until you find the 'right' note, job done.
I'll get me anorak..
Re: Keymixing
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:55 pm
by 4linehaiku
BLK PLAGUE wrote:ThinKing wrote:Identify (D1 on tempa)
ive found this tune very difficult to mix though i absolutely love it. anyone else?
Every other snare is offbeat isn't it? Not next to my records right now so I can't check, but I seem to remember that was what made it pretty tricky to mix with. Half the time it sounds like they've gone out of time when the haven't. Sounds sick with some tunes though.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:00 pm
by 4linehaiku
wascal wrote:I've been big on keymixing for a while, all you need to do is sit down one afternoon and play every tune you own once at a certain bpm (say, 140bpm) and make a note of the key.
The idea of beatmatching and working out the key of over 200 dubstep records in an afternoon doesn't strike me as a lot of fun. Especially as I'm still don't know how you work out a tune's key beyond humming along with it. Do you just bash a keyboard until something sounds right or what?
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:05 pm
by inaya
I'd suggest the same as others have. Just practice, you will be able to train your ears to judge whether a mix is in key or not after a while. You may have already been doing it and not known, it's just a phrase not a special skill. Like others have said, you will just hear if it sounds "right" or not
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:09 pm
by plastician
Keymixing is SOOOOOO important in Dubstep.
I think it is anyway!!
I hate listening back to a mix I've done and hearing the slightest tonal glitch.
Constantly trying to find records which compliment eachother tonally at the moment.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:13 pm
by 4linehaiku
Seems like the classic 'Listen to your mix and if it sounds a bit shit then do something different' approach will work just fine to be honest.
Might work out the key of a couple tunes and run some tests.
If they sound magical and sparkling beyond my wildest dreams maybe I'll get into this writing down all the keys game, but I'm not holding my breath.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:23 pm
by wascal
4linehaiku wrote:wascal wrote:I've been big on keymixing for a while, all you need to do is sit down one afternoon and play every tune you own once at a certain bpm (say, 140bpm) and make a note of the key.
The idea of beatmatching and working out the key of over 200 dubstep records in an afternoon doesn't strike me as a lot of fun. Especially as I'm still don't know how you work out a tune's key beyond humming along with it. Do you just bash a keyboard until something sounds right or what?
Nah I've got an A-Level in music and grade 8 on guitar. Neither of which help with djing mind you, i got them 10 years ago and haven't kept up with them much.
The initial day or 2 of hard work going through tunes is looong but you only have to do it once, and you dont have to listen to the entire tune to get an idea whats going on key wise.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:34 pm
by abZ
Working the keys out ahead of time saves a lot of time imo. You could do the trial and error method but you might have to audition 50 records before you get a match. If it's all written down you can narrow it down to a half dozen possible mixes real quick like.
It's funny my dnb buds never notice when I keymatch but one time I was playing and a friend that is into deep house walked through the door and listened for 10 minutes and said "wow dnb keymatched" That was when I was still playing dnb of course
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:42 pm
by marsyas
what does this say for the quality producers who cant mix for shit then
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:05 pm
by sully_shanks
randomhed wrote:Ive got a key lock on my decks, never used it once but after reading this i may investigate a lil further.
dont touch it, iitll make everything sound cack
same goes for any sort of ptich shifting device (ableton etc.)...
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:06 pm
by 4linehaiku
abZ wrote:It's funny my dnb buds never notice when I keymatch but one time I was playing and a friend that is into deep house walked through the door and listened for 10 minutes and said "wow dnb keymatched" That was when I was still playing dnb of course
I would imagine that this sort of thing is perfectly suited to epic 5 minute long deep house mixes. Wasn't it Sasha & John Digweed who made a big deal about keymixing at some point?
In the words of someone, "John Digweed: Playing boring tunes really really well". I quite like some Deep House though, so I should probably stop dissing.
Finally, given that I don't have musical training and I can't tell what note is going on by ear, is just playing different notes on a keyboard until one sounds nice with the tune a resonable method of finding the key it's in?