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2manynoobs wrote:yeah of course..

depends on how you look at the term "to raise"

feed, clothe, house, educate and love it.

butt jolokia wrote:For the record... I'm pro-life. I believe LIFE begins at the moment of conception.

It's not just the question of all life though. My sperm are alive, but there's no laws banning me from jacking off. If you want to argue for the preciousness of ALL life, then you better start finding a way to survive withouteating plants or animals.

Since that's out of the question, we have to talk about the life of a human individual. Which begs the question: what constitutes a human individual? I don't think a heartless, brainless, arguably soulless, mass of cells is comparable to a person nor do I think it has more of a right to live than a dolphin or ape that has the intellectual capacity of a child.

Is Butt Jolokia Christian?

butt jolokia wrote: rape: the rapist should be imprisoned and the parent should make the choice to give the child up for adoption or raise the child.

you overvalue the adoption process

for every proper adoption with a good upbringing there is a kid who is molested, tormented, and abused until they're old enough to leave.

solving one issue your conscious has a problem with, with one that is just as bad for the kid, but you can live with in your mind

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

didn't want to be the first to say it but yeah abortion should be used to cull humanity.

butt jolokia wrote:

Mr Hyde wrote:
What if you don't choose to have sex; underage, abuse, tsecni, rape etc?

Underage sex = the grandparents being responsible for the support of the child and grandchild. After all, its is their responsibility to educate their children in the risk of unprotected sex... and that includes Sarah Palin's family.

Abuse= define please. But either way, the child should have the right to live. If the mother doesn't want the child, she has the option to give the child up for adoption.

inzest: The parties should be imprisoned and the child given to child protective services.

rape: the rapist should be imprisoned and the parent should make the choice to give the child up for adoption or raise the child.

Abortion is not the answer.

although it is fine to take that moral high ground as a man, it is very judgemental and doesn't take the view of the person that wants the abortion; for an extreme sake of argument- a 13 year old girl that has been raped by her dad, your logic would say that she couldn't even take a morning after pill.

collige wrote: It's not just the question of all life though. My sperm are alive, but there's no laws banning me from jacking off. If you want to argue for the preciousness of ALL life, then you better start finding a way to survive withouteating plants or animals.

But what have you conceived with your masturbation? An old sock? Your sperm begin to die the moment you ejaculate. The moment of conception is different - a life begins.

butt jolokia wrote:

Mr Hyde wrote:
What if you don't choose to have sex; underage, abuse, tsecni, rape etc?

Underage sex = the grandparents being responsible for the support of the child and grandchild. After all, its is their responsibility to educate their children in the risk of unprotected sex... and that includes Sarah Palin's family.

Abuse= define please. But either way, the child should have the right to live. If the mother doesn't want the child, she has the option to give the child up for adoption.

inzest: The parties should be imprisoned and the child given to child protective services.

rape: the rapist should be imprisoned and the parent should make the choice to give the child up for adoption or raise the child.

Abortion is not the answer.

Okay I thought I could keep cool just making some jokes about it but fuck you for real. Fuck you, your family, everything you stand for. This is bullshit.

Mr Hyde wrote:

butt jolokia wrote:

Mr Hyde wrote:
What if you don't choose to have sex; underage, abuse, tsecni, rape etc?

Underage sex = the grandparents being responsible for the support of the child and grandchild. After all, its is their responsibility to educate their children in the risk of unprotected sex... and that includes Sarah Palin's family.

Abuse= define please. But either way, the child should have the right to live. If the mother doesn't want the child, she has the option to give the child up for adoption.

inzest: The parties should be imprisoned and the child given to child protective services.

rape: the rapist should be imprisoned and the parent should make the choice to give the child up for adoption or raise the child.

Abortion is not the answer.

although it is fine to take that moral high ground as a man, it is very judgemental and doesn't take the view of the person that wants the abortion; for an extreme sake of argument- a 13 year old girl that has been raped by her dad, your logic would say that she couldn't even take a morning after pill.

Yes. That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

butt jolokia wrote:

collige wrote: It's not just the question of all life though. My sperm are alive, but there's no laws banning me from jacking off. If you want to argue for the preciousness of ALL life, then you better start finding a way to survive withouteating plants or animals.

But what have you conceived with your masturbation? An old sock? Your sperm begin to die the moment you ejaculate. The moment of conception is different - a life begins.

see

If you want to argue for the preciousness of ALL life, then you better start finding a way to survive withouteating plants or animals.

Since that's out of the question, we have to talk about the life of a human individual. Which begs the question: what constitutes a human individual? I don't think a heartless, brainless, arguably soulless, mass of cells is comparable to a person nor do I think it has more of a right to live than a dolphin or ape that has the intellectual capacity of a child.

cityzen wrote:Is Butt Jolokia Christian?

Yes, I am.

if films were like real life you'd actually be putting your daughter at greater risk of rape by thinking that.

Kodachrome wrote: Fuck you, your family, everything you stand for. This is bullshit.

I'm glad at least one other person on here is with me on this.

Butt Jolokia is a reprehensible person...I don't really understand why the mods are trying to get rid of all the abuse hurled at him. It's one of those rare cases in which it's completely fucking justified, and it's sad that he isn't called out on this shit more often.

Personally, I don't think I could go through with an abortion. I'd have the child, then give it up for adoption. I do think women have the right to choose though; it's her body. And there would be a whole load of complications if you ban abortion. However, abortion is a quite mentally scarring process. My friend used to counsel women who had gone through abortion, and said it was absolutely awful. A lot of the women had named their child and would say '_____ would have been _____ years old now'. And the women who's abortion meant that they couldn't have kids in the future were really fucked up.

btw, this thread is sooooo gonna get locked.

collige wrote:
Since that's out of the question, we have to talk about the life of a human individual. Which begs the question: what constitutes a human individual? I don't think a heartless, brainless, arguably soulless, mass of cells is comparable to a person nor do I think it has more of a right to live than a dolphin or ape that has the intellectual capacity of a child.

It's irrelevant to your first "point".

@collige - Thats the overwhelming flaw of Christianity. They still cannot fathom a universe where they are not centric to the order of things. They honestly view that they are morally superior to all other species. Not because of the food chain, or because we are the superior being, but because they have a soul and other beings do not.

It's pretty fucking comical.

butt jolokia wrote:

cityzen wrote:Is Butt Jolokia Christian?

Yes, I am.

Seen! I can't see why people have a problem with you then.

most traditionalist views, especially coming from the right are based off of authoritarian personality. women mostly get categorized in rigid gender roles, and this is one of those roles where if a woman gets pregnant against her will, its must have been her fault, in the authoritarian's eyes. she was wearing a shirt with no bra, therefore she was asking to get raped. a lot of these anti-abortion morals and beliefs stem from this thought process. as much as the man is responsible for creating the zygote as the woman, the woman is the being who has to bear it, and more often than not, raise it. As much as I think life should be upheld at all costs, I think abortions should be able to be performed before a certain time frame of cellular development.

another characteristic of authoritarians is the need for really simplistic answers and very low cognitive use. those simplistic answers bass hertz provided for each scenario of unwanted pregnancies is a great example of it. bass is an authoritarian personality, as is most pro-life individuals. its one of the most ironic things because most who come from this kind of background being "pro-life" support most wars and have loads of family in the military.

Neptune wrote: My friend used to counsel women who had gone through abortion, and said it was absolutely awful. A lot of the women had named their child and would say '_____ would have been _____ years old now'. And the women who's abortion meant that they couldn't have kids in the future were really fucked up.

This is FACT.