Mixing Dubstep with Pop

[gater2010]

I'm in 2 minds about it really. On the one hand the bridge does have a slick sheen to it, but on the other hand it's just fad chasing. You have to remember that you are talking about a Britney Spears track.

Her production team will have access to the top end studio gear, which will include things like a full whack pro tools system as well as top of the range pre amps, compressors, limiters, vintage eqs, high end monitors, mics, expert acoustically designed control rooms etc etc... This all adds up to a slicker sound.

Monitors alone, make a huge difference to the art of producing. I would guess that a team produced and engineered this track. Dr Luke may have been the overseer working with a few studio engineers. I guess research is needed to know for sure. But in all honesty, I don't think it's that impressive, regardless of who wrote it, produced it and performed it. I've heard better ear candy for certain. I'd say what you're really hearing is the the sheen of it rather than the components. The song as a whole is pop. It's not dubstep.... The bridge section is more of a gimmick than a real concept.

[benjam]

^ Well put

[sargentpilcher]

the production on tunes like this one is way better than the production on that Britney bridge

On this song I'm actually surprised at the production value because it isn't usually that high, however now (and this is completely my opinion and I don't mean any offense) from a point of view of how good the song is, I think Britney's is better. You gotta have both.

look up eyes on youtube, he does a lot of remixing thats pretty decent.

Also, saying that the brittany bridge is better quality than most of dubstep out there now is sorta like walking into a ghetto hole in the wall southern cooking restaurant and telling them KFC is the shit.

I just checked out his remix of "lights". Really good! Thanks for the recomendation, although still not quite as pop as I'm looking for.

The dynamics of that song will be terrible also. Pop tunes get compressed to fuckery for pure loudness, which fools people into thinking they sound good. For an example of credible(ish) mainstream dubstep, look at magnetic man, their stuff is definitely dubstep but does ok in the charts. karma crazy is probably my favourite tune they've done.

People say the loudness wars has killed dynamics, but really it's simply given birth to a new form of dynamics. Before it would be that certain parts were louder than others, now it's certain parts are dirtier than others, or just hit a little bit harder. Changing up what drums are playing and when they come in can have a huge impact on dynamics even with a brickwall limiter smashing it to shit. And I checked out that song by magnetic man. Not very poppy in the sense I'm looking for.

Katy on a mission was a pretty good crossover. As is some (some as in, it's not all dubstep the release) of the stuff magnetic man brings out.

That Katy B song is pretty good! Thank you! But this one isn't dubstep enough haha. It seems to be too much one or the other. I'm losing hope that they can mesh together.


Edit: Also, here's another good example of a dubstep part in a pop song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ooeJfckok It's "Good feeling" by flo rida. Skip to 2:48 for the dubstep part (VERY light dubstep)

[sargentpilcher]

I'm in 2 minds about it really. On the one hand the bridge does have a slick sheen to it, but on the other hand it's just fad chasing. You have to remember that you are talking about a Britney Spears track.

Her production team will have access to the top end studio gear, which will include things like a full whack pro tools system as well as top of the range pre amps, compressors, limiters, vintage eqs, high end monitors, mics, expert acoustically designed control rooms etc etc... This all adds up to a slicker sound.

Monitors alone, make a huge difference to the art of producing. I would guess that a team produced and engineered this track. Dr Luke may have been the overseer working with a few studio engineers. I guess research is needed to know for sure. But in all honesty, I don't think it's that impressive, regardless of who wrote it, produced it and performed it. I've heard better ear candy for certain. I'd say what you're really hearing is the the sheen of it rather than the components. The song as a whole is pop. It's not dubstep.... The bridge section is more of a gimmick than a real concept.

You are absolutely correct about it being a team. Doctor Luke himself has a team of 12 writers for him, plus you have the input of Britney (Performer), then you have whoever produced it, and then you have a dedicated mixer, and mastering engineer, where with a "Normal" person you have to do all of that on your own, so of course her production values will be higher because she has lots of money to pay for all those people. But it's still the quality I'm aiming for, whether or not I can attain it.

Also, I think everybody is focusing too much on the Britney tune, because it's not even the best example of what I want to do anyways. I don't really want to make this thread an argument over who makes the best dubstep, I'm looking for the poppiest dubstep, and I don't even honestly think that Britney's dubstep part was all that poppy, I was merely using it for an example of dubstep being used in mainstream music.

I think this is the best example of poppified dubstep I've every heard (Skip to 0:40)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMdXOqq3WL4

[sargentpilcher]

Also, I want to say that pop and dubstep WILL meet eventually, it's simply a matter of when, and how. I can't tell you the future, but whenever something gains traction like dubstep has (Mostly from skrillex), people are going to take notice, and the powers that be that want to make a quick buck (Including myself - the power), are going to want a piece of it. They are going to find a way to package it and give it mainstream appeal. It won't last long, and it depends on how receptive people are to it, but after seeing skrillex do so well, it's an inevitability.

Just think about it. Every single form of music that became popular started out just like this, going back to Elvis. The "Real" soul singers were all black, but because of the inherent racism of the time, people wanted a white singer, so record execs thought "If we can find a white man who can sound black, we will make a lot of money" and they found Elvis. Blues arose a very similar way. The exact same thing is happening now with euro house, with David Guetta, benny bennassi, etc. In a couple years, nobody will give a shit about who they are, and it will be something new. Maybe dubstep, maybe a mix of the 2, maybe neither. All I know is that dubstep has gained enough popularity warrant trying to mix it with pop.

[accordionfan]

OP, are you a 14 year old girl? serious question

[sargentpilcher]

OP, are you a 14 year old girl? serious question

I don't know why it matters, but I am a 24 year old male

[.onelove.]

What is it you actually like about Dubstep OP? How is a normal Pop song different from a Dubstep Pop song in your opinion?

[mikeyp]

poppiest dubstep

back to what I said before, imo, there's no such thing. it's pop or it's dubstep.

and the powers that be that want to make a quick buck (Including myself - the power), are going to want a piece of it

if you want to produce music just to make a quick buck, well.. that's not going to work out for you. you should be doing something else to make a quick buck like buying into those infomercials at 4 in the morning. if money is always the first thing on your mind when you're doing this, you won't be doing it for long.

[sargentpilcher]

What is it you actually like about Dubstep OP? How is a normal Pop song different from a Dubstep Pop song in your opinion?

In my opinion, many things.

First, the structure. Pop songs follow a verse - chorus - verse - chorus - bridge - chorus or some minor variation of that. In much of dubstep, I'm sure they have names for the different parts, but it would be more along the lines of intro - buildup - drop - breakdown - buildup - drop etc (Forgive me if I didn't use the correct terms.). In dubstep, the idea is to get your body moving on a dance floor, much like there is non pop electro house music. Just look at deadmau5, and many others.

Second, lyrics. In pop, the lyrics are meant to appeal to the largest amount of people possible, to maximise your market. That's why so many popular songs are about love. Also, a LOT of sexual innuendo is used without actually saying anything dirty. For example, Britney Spears' song "I wanna go" is totally talking about masterbating, but if she actually said the word masterbation, adults would probably be put off, and the song wouldn't appeal to children (Which is a loss of market). While dubstep is often times associated with grimy/evil things, using more evil sounding samples before drops. I think if I had some good pop drops, it could be really cool. Like the one I'm working on now, I cut out the last lyric of the prechorus where he sings "as we dance on through the sound" DROP. But I'm just not skilled enough in dubstep to get it sounding good.

Third, is style. Pop is ever changing for whatever the newest trend is. Right now, it's electro/house in a heavily poppified fashion, while also bringing with it the previous generations of pop music. Which means you have house songs that 10 years ago would have been 15 minutes long, shortened into 3 - 4 minute super poppy versions of themselves with hip hop infused on many of the verses, while the chorus has pretty singing over it usually. Pop is often times in happy sounding scales like C major, while dubstep sounds more sinister, probably utilising more minor scales (Although I'm not the best at theory so don't quote me.). But the feeling each one invokes is MUCH different.

Fourth, is the singer. The singer, is by FAR the single most important aspect of any pop song. This is why if you have a good enough vocal line, it can apply to many genres depending on how you work the music. A good vocal part can be remixed into any genre and still make you feel something. The vocals I usually hear on dubstep are not catchy, and are usually heavily cut up and processed.

[sargentpilcher]

poppiest dubstep

back to what I said before, imo, there's no such thing. it's pop or it's dubstep.

and the powers that be that want to make a quick buck (Including myself - the power), are going to want a piece of it

if you want to produce music just to make a quick buck, well.. that's not going to work out for you. you should be doing something else to make a quick buck like buying into those infomercials at 4 in the morning. if money is always the first thing on your mind when you're doing this, you won't be doing it for long.

money isn't the only thing on my mind, but success is. I just want to make music other people will like as well.

Also, it's not all so black and white. There are many grey areas, like skrillex and his pop remixes. His remixes often have more views than the actual song. Well I don't know about often, but I know "Hey sexy lady", and "Cinema" remixes have more views than the original songs themselves. This to me says that dubstep CAN be poppy, it's all in how you use it.

[mikeyp]

do you really think dubstep is all evil and mean sounding? like, what I just got from that is that you think it's death metal electronic dance music

[mikeyp]

poppiest dubstep

back to what I said before, imo, there's no such thing. it's pop or it's dubstep.

and the powers that be that want to make a quick buck (Including myself - the power), are going to want a piece of it

if you want to produce music just to make a quick buck, well.. that's not going to work out for you. you should be doing something else to make a quick buck like buying into those infomercials at 4 in the morning. if money is always the first thing on your mind when you're doing this, you won't be doing it for long.

money isn't the only thing on my mind, but success is. I just want to make music other people will like as well.

Also, it's not all so black and white. There are many grey areas, like skrillex and his pop remixes. His remixes often have more views than the actual song. Well I don't know about often, but I know "Hey sexy lady", and "Cinema" remixes have more views than the original songs themselves. This to me says that dubstep CAN be poppy, it's all in how you use it.

did you read anything i said in my long post? those have views because they're good dubstep songs. they are not pop anymore! and um, those aren't even pop songs to begin with. I've never heard either on the radio once. benassi is by no means pop and i'd had never even heard of the original hey sexy lady if it weren't for the remix.

[ChadDub]

I have looked, and the fact of the matter is that there really ins't much dubstep out there that is as well produced as the Britney Spears bridge. There are a million different metrics you can use to say one song is better than another. It comes down to opinion. I want to hear an example of something you guys think sounds better than the britney bridge, so I can see what you're talking about.

Wow, are you serious? That bridge is the most shitty excuse for Dubstep I've ever heard. There's tons better than that, seeing as that Britney song is the worst...


Skrillex
Excision
Koan Sound
silkie
Joker
Borgore
Craze And Hoax
Bassnectar
16Bit (sometimes)
High Rankin

etc.

[Bandersson]

I think that "I need you" by TMS and jagga is a perfect example of a dubsep song working more like a standard pop song, i.e it has a chorus/verse structure with a more drop-ish part acting as a bridge.
And i mean that in a good way since i absolutely dig this tune.

[sargentpilcher]

did you read anything i said in my long post? those have views because they're good dubstep songs. they are not pop anymore! and um, those aren't even pop songs to begin with. I've never heard either on the radio once. benassi is by no means pop and i'd had never even heard of the original hey sexy lady if it weren't for the remix.

I didn't mean to ignore anything in your original post, I'm not really sure what I missed.

Benassi didn't used to be pop, but he is definitely moving into pop territory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPn9zesJU6M Beautiful people - Chris Brown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAejck2XKSw&ob=av3e Electroman - T-pain

Cinema might not be played on the radio, but it's still a pop song. Same with hey sexy lady. In a way, it actually helps me make my point. I'm not trying to directly copy them, but I want to take it to the next step. Right now, the poppiest form of dubstep is skrillex, but I want to be MORE poppy than him. But it still needs to be based on the roots of dubstep.

I'm sure the early days of hip hop felt similar to the way you do right now. Hip hop is the antithesis of pop music. If I may quote the streets, "Hip hop started because the government didn't give a fuck about the streets", but it has now evolved into the pop arena. I'm sure nobody saw that coming 20 years ago when NWA, Tupac, and public enemy were becoming popular. But that is just how music works. It evolves. You might not see it now, hell I can't even see it, that's why I'm trying to mess around with the idea, so I can be one of the first to do it.

[sargentpilcher]

I think that "I need you" by TMS and jagga is a perfect example of a dubsep song working more like a standard pop song, i.e it has a chorus/verse structure with a more drop-ish part acting as a bridge.
And i mean that in a good way since i absolutely dig this tune.

That's a REALLY good example of what I'm trying to do, but picture dubstep underneath the vocals, and not dubstep on it's own as a seperate section, but on the chorus. Thanks for showing me that!

[sargentpilcher]

I have looked, and the fact of the matter is that there really ins't much dubstep out there that is as well produced as the Britney Spears bridge. There are a million different metrics you can use to say one song is better than another. It comes down to opinion. I want to hear an example of something you guys think sounds better than the britney bridge, so I can see what you're talking about.

Wow, are you serious? That bridge is the most shitty excuse for Dubstep I've ever heard. There's tons better than that, seeing as that Britney song is the worst...


Skrillex
Excision
Koan Sound
silkie
Joker
Borgore
Craze And Hoax
Bassnectar
16Bit (sometimes)
High Rankin

etc.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they all stink. You might not like the Britney dubstep, but 65 million youtube viewers agree with me.

[narcissus]

wow. i have nothing to say to this.

"Life, Prince Leon, may well be compared withz these public Games, for in the vast crowd assembled here, some are attracted by the acquisition of gain, others are led on by the hopes and ambitions of fame and glory. But among them there are a few who have come to observe and to understand all that passes here.
It is the same with life. Some are influenced by the love of wealth while others are blindly led on by the mad fever for power and domination, but the finest type of man gives himself up to discovering the meaning and purpose of life itself. He seeks to uncover the secrets of nature. This is the man I call a philosopher, for although no man is completely wise in all respects, he can love wisdom as the key to nature's secrets." - Pythagoras, c. 540 B.C.

[ChadDub]

Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they all stink. You might not like the Britney dubstep, but 65 million youtube viewers agree with me.

I can garuntee you no one who listens to that even knows what dubstep is, let alone listens to that song for the dubstep.