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Is that personal to you, or due to the nature of the software, iyo?

I think a combination of the two. Renoise works in a way similar to the way I think. in some ways it's limiting, but in many others, the software guides you to make decisions you might not normally make.

This combined with software that not only sounds incredible compared to every other DAW i've worked with, but also the UI feels particularly intuitive. That and the whole not being able to see the music thing, forces you to make decisions aurally instead of visually.

Then I got to a point where I was able to read the patterns like notation, and it got a little *too* visual for me. I went off to live 9 for a bit, but just upgraded to 3.0 and it's blowing my mind again.

There are some things I hate about renoise - the automation is kind of a pain in the ass, but when you choose to work with samples (or resampling synths) then you don't need to automate as much as you would just end up using pattern effects commands.

wolf89 wrote:

smalltock wrote:I just downloaded the Linux binary for Renoise. I can tell that the developers approached music production differently than other software sequencers. Also, the demo song is long as hell. I've been listening for eight minutes.

It's actually a really old approach though.

Personally I'm not sure if I like renoise too much. I mean as someone who got into music playing guitar typing in rows of numbers is even further away from that than most other DAWs about now. However it is very flexible. Doesn't force you into blocks and loops as much and it's very good for chopping breaks and stuff. I think for anything like that I could see myself using it. Maybe for making drums for a grime tune too. Writing melodies is interesting too because it's way easier to see what's happening compared to looking at piano rolls

For techno and stuff I like jamming on hardware to make sounds and then doing lots of weird processing on stuff and can't be arse typing numbers and shit then.

Renoise is great for jamming. Lots of musicians use it in their live setup. It's great for triggerer sections of music and manipulating them through in real time.





Renoise's capabilities as a great sample mashing tool (for jungle) are incidental to what makes it great in the first place; creating music on the fly due to a quick interface that makes full use of a computer's input device (keyboard).

I also came from guitar and I felt more comfortable with Renoise than any horizontal sequencer.

Yeah but with techno where I'd record a drum machine and hardware synths in and then move chunks around and spend ages making sounds and processing and re-sampling them and doing all sorts of automation and shit I find it really slow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk_fWI7w2_U

this is amazing

wolf89 wrote:Yeah but with techno where I'd record a drum machine and hardware synths in and then move chunks around and spend ages making sounds and processing and re-sampling them and doing all sorts of automation and shit I find it really slow.

"render selection to sample".

that combined with the fact that if you read the manual, memorize the hot keys, your hands rarely need to leave the keyboard. renoise is pretty much a modular sampler with a built-in sequencer, and a sound engine that aliases less than most DAWs out there.

I'm not kidding. I couldn't STAND the sound of live 8 - it wasnt until 9 came out that I felt the engine was getting closer to renoise in terms of quality. I'll have to find the post, but someone tracked the aliasing of various DAWS and hardware, and renoise out-performs them all.

misk wrote:, your hands rarely need to leave the keyboard.

.

Where as when I'm doing any techno type stuff I'm not on my laptop a good amount of the time so that's not remotely appealing.

wolf89 wrote:

misk wrote:, your hands rarely need to leave the keyboard.

.

Where as when I'm doing any techno type stuff I'm not on my laptop a good amount of the time so that's not remotely appealing.

then it's not for you

I love it. I love Live too - it's a matter of personal taste.

And they both have their strong suits and weak points. It doesn't need to be one versus the other, like there is some kind of opposition.

Standout features for me are -

Stable as fuck, has never crashed of its own accord.
Very CPU friendly too.

Really tight timing through a midi interface.

Open source Tool API means stacks of add ons for extra features. If something is missing you can probably script it yourself...

Same applies to controller support.

Completely remappable keyboard shortcuts.

Autoseek samples - when you load in a long sample and start playing a track from say halfway through the sample, renoise plays the sample from the right place, as if it were an audio track in a regular DAW.

It's dirt cheap and you get a whole version of free updates.

Hows renoise for midi controllers? Or are you guys saying its so intuitive already with just the qwerty that i wouldnt need an extra controller?

nowaysj wrote:And they both have their strong suits and weak points. It doesn't need to be one versus the other, like there is some kind of opposition.

Yeah I wasn't saying that. I just said I could see myself using for some things but not for a lot else of what I do. Then everyone who uses renoise started claiming I could still do stuff on it that I don't use it for.

JizzMan wrote:Hows renoise for midi controllers? Or are you guys saying its so intuitive already with just the qwerty that i wouldnt need an extra controller?

yes on the qwerty thing. (i love writing qwerty - it's like a left-handed finger roll of awesome). I use my apc 40 with it sometimes, and i've thrown a few simple max patches together to have it converse with my monome. it plays well with others. Renoise can crash if you're using plug-ins sometimes, but sully's right in saying that if you're just using renoise native effects, some samples, and screwing with those samples in non-euclidean, alternate universe sort of ways, then you probably won't be crashing renoise anytime soon.

very easy on the cpu cycles too, and yeah, i bought it for like $70 4 years ago at 1.8. I just upgraded from 3 to 4.0 for another $50. No big DAW company is gonna let you get away with shelling out a measly $120 or so for approximately 7-8 years of updates.

Oh and it has this adjustable soft clipping feature that defaults to -6dB, so when you think you're redlining the master, you're probably not. The feature has saved my ass back before i knew better, even though your premasters come out a bit quieter — but that's a good thing.

oh and it's actually not intuitive at all if you're coming from a horizontal DAW background. Renoise has a steep learning curve, but it's worth it.

misk wrote: I'll have to find the post, but someone tracked the aliasing of various DAWS and hardware, and renoise out-performs them all.

Please do. I'm intrigued.

misk wrote:it's the only piece of software i've ever used where you become so comfortable with the tool that the interface between you and your musical ideas disappears

I've gotten to this point too. It really helps with creative flow. The only thing I complaint I have is that it sucks working with long samples, since you have to wait from the beginning of playback of a sample if you want to hear a specific part in the song. I worked on a cover song with a friend and I was overdubbing his performances over the original song, so I had to use Reaper instead. The only workaround I could think of was too tedious.

misk wrote: the sample manipulation with the new instrument options is fucking DEEEEEEEEEEP. you could easily write a tune with one sample.

One of the demo songs from the 2.0 version does this.
Ghost Debts by mr_mark_dollin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ZMVWP4eNg

JizzMan wrote:Hows renoise for midi controllers? Or are you guys saying its so intuitive already with just the qwerty that i wouldnt need an extra controller?

[/quote]
Sometimes I prefer not to use my midi controller for things. I've come up with things on my laptop keyboard I wouldn't have with the midi keyboard. If you want stuff like realistic piano sounds, I would use a midi keyboard as the computer keyboard just does the full velocity for every note. It'd be tedious to edit the velocities for the all notes by hand. I think that's the same for all DAWs.