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let's have a philosophical debate about what qualifies a person as a good philosopher.

dubunked wrote:

Genevieve wrote:

dubunked wrote:M8 you ever hear of social anomie? You would definitely be interested in that concept. Learned about it in college. Pretty close to what you're talking about. Your scope might be a little more specific but you should definitely read about it if you haven't already.

Durkheim hypothesized that suicide rates were higher in societies that have ill-defined social expectations for individuals, or in other words, societies that hold contradictory beliefs and values, which causes cognitive dissonance. He turned out to be right.

Although I'm a little confused on the meaning of the term "cultural self-esteem"....

No that's really fucking close to what I was thinking about. What you're describing anyway! I will have a look, thanks :0

ye your a philosophizer m8. it's funny, many of the people I studied in school aren't really all that brilliant. I'm sure there were 1000s of others who had the same exact thoughts and theories but never bothered to put them into writing or their writings just never became famous. hell, I even thought of most of the things I learnt about before I learnt them (in certain subjects).

Oops, forgot about your question about what I meant with 'cultural self-esteem'. I meant that when a large chunk of people share this same innability to live up to a society's standards or internally resist what they embrace outwardly (like society expects from them). That people's collective response to the dissonance you described works itself into becoming a cultural phenomenon and apart of culture.

A friend of mine, who's into philosophy, begged me to study it >.> couldn't possibly focus on all that work tho. You studying it? :0

yeah philosophy minor m8

although this is sociology we're talking really

hugh wrote:let's have a philosophical debate about what qualifies a person as a good philosopher.

ok, on what premises?

genevieve I actually know exactly what you mean. I know a lot of people, and actually one of my good friends, that think they're these modern day "hippies". They grow their hair out, listen to the Grateful Dead, Further, Phish, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. They act like they're so open-minded and free-spirited. And when you really get to know them, they are some of the most judgmental, selfish, and elitist people I know. part of it is the fact that some of them are addicted to drugs, which I think makes you inherently a more selfish person. but my friend isn't addicted to anything as far as I know, and he is a very judgmental person. part of it is also just the neighborhood we're from, but....

deadly habit wrote: Like I said I view a lot of these as government projection for an identity to the rest of the world to cover other underlying issues.
Kind of like the whole North Korea projecting itself with it's glorious leader and a paradise, but failing.
Other governments just seem to have better PR, but usually the populace buys into it due to indoctrination in some way shape or form from childhood.

+1

forced patriotism and manipulation.
like america, that whole country is founded on "manifest destiny" and related propaganda. all that total bollocsk that was promised to chumps so they go and populate this fabled new land. and even though its a few hundred years since the first invaders went to america, all that manifest destiniy/american dream bullshit still resonates in american culture

i guess people wanting to live upto expectations coems from humans pack/tribe origiins and the fact everoyne wants to fit in somewhere. like whyd we bother talking to each other on internet forums etc.

isnt cognitive disonnance basically just conflicting ideas that confuse people? i havent talked about that in ages. looked at it a bit when i was doing stuff on how people mentally process health awareness campaigns but my memory is sooo bad. guess the higher suicide rate in countries with poor national identities is cos they often have a lot of other problems going on, economic failure and political/social unrest etc? it cant all be to do with the national identity and cognitive dissonance

im too hungover for this thread. boggle my tired brain.

interesting stuff though

pretty sure if i remember correctly, durkheim found that suicide rates increased during economic busts, but increased the same during economic booms, which was pretty significant.

check out this page, especially the part about "anomic suicide": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_%28book%29

Genevieve wrote:
Oops, forgot about your question about what I meant with 'cultural self-esteem'. I meant that when a large chunk of people share this same innability to live up to a society's standards or internally resist what they embrace outwardly (like society expects from them). That people's collective response to the dissonance you described works itself into becoming a cultural phenomenon and apart of culture.

do you mean like the Japanese hikikomori?
www​.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23182523

there's a bit more on this on the bbc news site, including an article on the comments in relation to the first article.

dubunked wrote:pretty sure if i remember correctly, durkheim found that suicide rates increased during economic busts, but increased the same during economic booms, which was pretty significant.

check out this page, especially the part about "anomic suicide": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_%28book%29

interesting stuff man cheers!