In the future, do you think...

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magma
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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by magma » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:22 am

nowaysj wrote:
test recordings wrote:I actually think practical electronics and software coding should be taught as compulsive schooling because it's just so useful for people to know.
My 8 year old kid is learning the most basic computer shit at school. Like make the turtle go up 10 units, turn right go 10 units... At the same age, in the very early 80's, I was already knee deep in code... wtf happened?
I'm guessing you did that off your own back at age 8... I know I did; hours spent in front of my BBC-B writing my own games and animations. You can't really expect an education curriculum aimed at all children to get as in depth as a single child can go under their own steam. It's about providing an introduction for all, not expertise for all - the ones with the interest will have a better starting point to go and get passionate in their own time and when they get a chance to whittle down their school subjects at a later age.

The UK are just about to revamp their computing curriculum and all under 10s will be learning some basic programming... it's a great move, but I'm not so obsessed with computers that I don't realise there are 15-20 other subjects they need to cover before they start picking and choosing as well.
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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by nousd » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:54 am

OP is probably right that takeovers and acquisitions will dominate future manufacturing
but the exceptions may be bio-engineering enterprises that come up with core, patentable research and resist multinational buy-outs
and government/public seeded enterprises when the public is convinced of the disbenefits of monopolies
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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by nowaysj » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:22 am

magma wrote:
nowaysj wrote:
test recordings wrote:I actually think practical electronics and software coding should be taught as compulsive schooling because it's just so useful for people to know.
My 8 year old kid is learning the most basic computer shit at school. Like make the turtle go up 10 units, turn right go 10 units... At the same age, in the very early 80's, I was already knee deep in code... wtf happened?
I'm guessing you did that off your own back at age 8... I know I did; hours spent in front of my BBC-B writing my own games and animations. You can't really expect an education curriculum aimed at all children to get as in depth as a single child can go under their own steam. It's about providing an introduction for all, not expertise for all - the ones with the interest will have a better starting point to go and get passionate in their own time and when they get a chance to whittle down their school subjects at a later age.

The UK are just about to revamp their computing curriculum and all under 10s will be learning some basic programming... it's a great move, but I'm not so obsessed with computers that I don't realise there are 15-20 other subjects they need to cover before they start picking and choosing as well.
Agree to and extent, but in the basic core curriculum of reading, writing and arithmetic (which really is generic, but look at actual time spent in school, and this remains the core) what is missing? LOGIC! Just raw analytical thinking! IMO programming is more than a school subject, it is a core intellectual ability because it is applicable in some way to everything that we do in every facet of our lives whether we are professional flower arrangers, google developers, or dole collectors.

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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by magma » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:35 am

nowaysj wrote:
magma wrote:
nowaysj wrote:
test recordings wrote:I actually think practical electronics and software coding should be taught as compulsive schooling because it's just so useful for people to know.
My 8 year old kid is learning the most basic computer shit at school. Like make the turtle go up 10 units, turn right go 10 units... At the same age, in the very early 80's, I was already knee deep in code... wtf happened?
I'm guessing you did that off your own back at age 8... I know I did; hours spent in front of my BBC-B writing my own games and animations. You can't really expect an education curriculum aimed at all children to get as in depth as a single child can go under their own steam. It's about providing an introduction for all, not expertise for all - the ones with the interest will have a better starting point to go and get passionate in their own time and when they get a chance to whittle down their school subjects at a later age.

The UK are just about to revamp their computing curriculum and all under 10s will be learning some basic programming... it's a great move, but I'm not so obsessed with computers that I don't realise there are 15-20 other subjects they need to cover before they start picking and choosing as well.
Agree to and extent, but in the basic core curriculum of reading, writing and arithmetic (which really is generic, but look at actual time spent in school, and this remains the core) what is missing? LOGIC! Just raw analytical thinking! IMO programming is more than a school subject, it is a core intellectual ability because it is applicable in some way to everything that we do in every facet of our lives whether we are professional flower arrangers, google developers, or dole collectors.

NEwayz :i:
I agree, which is why I think it's good that logic is being added to primary school syllabuses over here. I don't think we need to be giving them all formal lessons in languages though - when they're 13 or 14 and have showed interest and aptitude, most certainly.
The National Curriculum wrote:Key stage 1 (Age 5-7)

Pupils should be taught to:
 understand what algorithms are; how they are implemented as programs on digital
devices; and that programs execute by following precise and unambiguous instructions
 create and debug simple programs
 use logical reasoning to predict the behaviour of simple programs
 use technology purposefully to create, organise, store, manipulate and retrieve digital
content
 recognise common uses of information technology beyond school
 use technology safely and respectfully, keeping personal information private; identify
where to go for help and support when they have concerns about content or contact on
the internet or other online technologies.

Key stage 2 (age 7 to 11)
Pupils should be taught to:
 design, write and debug programs that accomplish specific goals, including controlling
or simulating physical systems; solve problems by decomposing them into smaller
parts
 use sequence, selection, and repetition in programs; work with variables and various
forms of input and output
 use logical reasoning to explain how some simple algorithms work and to detect and
correct errors in algorithms and programs
 understand computer networks including the internet; how they can provide multiple
services, such as the world wide web; and the opportunities they offer for
communication and collaboration
 use search technologies effectively, appreciate how results are selected and ranked,
and be discerning in evaluating digital content
 select, use and combine a variety of software (including internet services) on a range of
digital devices to design and create a range of programs, systems and content that
accomplish given goals, including collecting, analysing, evaluating and presenting data
and information
 use technology safely, respectfully and responsibly; recognise
acceptable/unacceptable behaviour; identify a range of ways to report concerns about
content and contact.
My lady's currently working on lesson plans to tutor primary age kids in HTML and BASIC as a supplement to what's going into the formal curriculum - I reckon it's an absolutely great idea for those that are interested enough to do it in their own time to get a head start on the pack.
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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by skell1ngton777 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:43 am

I believe that learning computer programming changed the way i think about everything, i feel that it greatly increased my capacity for abstract thought.

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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by nowaysj » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:44 am

S'awesome. My daughter has logic, but it definitely is a second tier subject. She gets 1-2 math tests a week, but I've seen 1 or 2 logic tests in the last 6 weeks... and the logic they do is fairly abstract, there is no bridge to anything real and actual, so from what I see, it goes in one ear and out the other.
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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by hubb » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:30 pm

[quoteAt the same age, in the very early 80's, I was already knee deep in code... wtf happened?][/quote]

You are absolutely right - there's no reason programming shouldn't be central in a lot of education if not most.

Weirdly, a lot of modern psychology has changed from the idea that the subjects has to be convinced by certain points themselves and taking authority- to just accepting that we are all programmed by a number of parameters into an abstract shape that someone can give an interpretation of what means later.
Right now in human media :6: , morality is something we discuss as being mostly social programming - which is incredibly unhelpful, dangerous and a bit like saying everybody is just brainwashed.

It's like we accept conditioning in society but think programming is different and worse, when it's the same.
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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by lovelydivot » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:14 am

fuck that - bring back the black and white photography class...

...had so much fun developing & tweeking photos in the darkroom at school...



It's also a great excuse to walk around town a half dozen times..

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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by wysockisauce » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:42 am

lovelydivot wrote:fuck that - bring back the black and white photography class...

...had so much fun developing & tweeking photos in the darkroom at school...



It's also a great excuse to walk around town a half dozen times..
Had this in high school 5ish years ago. I think they still have it, was a fun class. Definitely gave me a fresh perspective on the world.

As for the original question regarding regulation of the market for industries with large economies of scale. That's the government's job. When it gets really bad I'm sure they'll either subsidize new companies or break up existing ones. Like what happened to AT&T in the US.

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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by sigbowls » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:13 am

in the future we will find out if the moon, mars and earth are hollow i hope

dont look at me like im crazy m8
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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by skell1ngton777 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:21 pm

yo i bet teh stars r hollow too woah think about it bro

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Re: In the future, do you think...

Post by bigfootspartan » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:59 pm

magma wrote:Yeah, there will. One thing we've seen with new technologies coming through, is that start-ups often get he jump on the established empires who are slow to adapt... it might not be enough to topple the empire, but footholds can definitely be found. For instance LG's rise over the last 10 years through cheap flat panel TV and cheap mobile phones means they now have a market position where they can offer mobile products at competitive quality and price points with Apple, Nokia and Samsung; HTC aren't too far behind in the mobile markets though still arguably in their "smartphone-on-a-budget" phase. Microsoft have made failed attempt after failed attempt to capitalise on mobile phone software - if you'd asked anyone in 1998 who was going to be the king of the Mobile OS in 2013, you would've answered Microsoft without much hesitation; but unless you're a business or XBox user, they're almost off the map nowadays. People don't even automatically pick Windows for their new laptops anymore.

In the automotive industry, I think it's a little bit more difficult - probably because of the up front investment needed to get a mass-produced vehicle onto the market - if you've got a factory already, you're in a huge position of advantage, but we've seen a great deal of the leaps forward in green technology coming from tiny companies - Tesla for example.... the old giants have struggled, especially the American ones - the current conditions in Detroit are a pretty good demonstration of how spectacularly old dinosaurs can fall from grace when faced with major market change... while the rest of the world has been gaining market share over the last 25 years by producing compacts and lately hybrid and electric cars, GM are still clinging onto the last century mass-producing SUVs and muscle cars with inappropriately inefficient engines for 2013.. and Detroit has become a modern wasteland, effectively America's first third-world city as a result.

I think hubb's Pixar example has its parallels in the automotive industry too, though not on such a market-changing scale perhaps - Horacio Pagani leaving Lamborghini to start his own independent marque.

It's definitely not 'sewn up', but industries with bigger economies of scale will always tend to favour established producers as long as they don't entirely fuck the game up (see GM).
+1. "The Innovator's Dilemma" by Clayton Christenson is a great read on this. My opinion is that we will always have new startups that will eventually take the place of the current market leaders. It's much harder in the manufacturing/automotive industries as there are quite a few barriers that create giant moats around these companies (ie. initial capital costs, customer loyalty/recognition of the brand).

When a company is big enough it becomes focused on creating shareholder value, which oftentimes causes it to overlook upcoming technologies as they just aren't profitable. This creates a hole in the market where upcoming businesses can focus on becoming industry leaders in these niche products. The introduction to The Innovators Dilemma goes over this in detail when looking at the hard disk drive industry, which I found pretty interesting.

Acquisitions are a pretty big trend for market leaders right now and it will be interesting to see how this shapes the future of new startups. At the moment, most people who I talk to who are working on entrepreneurial projects (and are all in the tech/software industry) have a focus on being acquired in the future. With that said, startups are usually a bit more agile when there are changing pressures in the marketplace as long as they have enough capital to change directions.

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