Dubstepforum.com

pete bubonic wrote:Thank you for dismissing my opinions as snobbery and ugly

Thought it appropriate given the way you condescended the 'mp3 generation' and young people in general.

nowaysj wrote:

pete bubonic wrote:Thank you for dismissing my opinions as snobbery and ugly

Thought it appropriate given the way you condescended the 'mp3 generation' and young people in general.

there's no condescension there? Do you not think there is a change in culture and music consumption arisen from MP3s (or at least the 'digital' marketplace) and that it's far more prevalent in younger people?

I think mp3's met a desire that was not fulfilled by linear recording media. I mean, I had this convo 20+ years ago in regards to compact discs.

And yeah, young people are fuckwits, I'm just enjoying the view from this high horse.

But, I'm the proper codger really, and there is a lot that I like about mp3s, and one of them is not having to buy music that I don't enjoy, or even that the artist didn't enjoy. And I really like listing to a variety of music. I like the juxtapositions, I like to just keep it fresh.

I fucking love MP3s, I got Serato and certainly pick the better tunes off of shit albums. Honestly, not sure if I worded it badly (I didn't but I'm being polite), I don't think anything less of the younger generations ability or greater inclination to shop this way, only that it's more prevalent and having a definite effect on the whole industry, production included.

pete bubonic wrote:(I didn't but I'm being polite)

That much is obvious.

nowaysj wrote:

rockonin wrote:$1000 for artwork? Seriously?

I'd just take a photo of some graffity/abandoned buildings etc, turn it black and white in Photoshop and hey presto.

I think you forgot a step there.

Which step?

rockonin wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

rockonin wrote:$1000 for artwork? Seriously?

I'd just take a photo of some graffity/abandoned buildings etc, turn it black and white in Photoshop and hey presto.

I think you forgot a step there.

Which step?

Dubstep.

wub wrote:

rockonin wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

rockonin wrote:$1000 for artwork? Seriously?

I'd just take a photo of some graffity/abandoned buildings etc, turn it black and white in Photoshop and hey presto.

I think you forgot a step there.

Which step?

Dubstep.

lol

Yeah the radio single really commodified recorded music and butchered the album as an art form. What was once a 12 course meal is now Olive garden Breadsticks and a 'Thank You' mint. Initially singles were supposed to promote the LP, but radio got more popular than home listening to the point that the single has now basically replaced the LP. Then musicians and producers started halfassing it cause they knew barely anyone would listen to the whole thing anyway and they could get away with padding in some fluff tracks. Feedback cycle; lot of shit music made; money wrecks everything.

But, there are still badmen making full start to finish bona fide albums. In fact I usually won't listen to anyone who doesn't at least have a fairly high quality ratio. If I hear one decent song and then listen to the rest of their music and it's trash, I don't even bother. I think the shuffle feature on mp3 players helped kill the album as well. It seems I'm one of the rare few people who still listen to full albums on the go. It seems fucked to me when I check out someone's ipod and it's a thousand different artists with a single song each. That shit is like only watching the climax scenes from all your favorite movies instead of watching one from start to finish. Don't you give a shit about the piece as a whole, the way the artist intended it? Obviously this doesn't really apply to EDM et al, if the "album" is just a bunch of mediocre singles tagteaming a disc.

Regarding this dude's flow; he definitely could have managed his shit better. I chuckled heartily at "50% to sample clearance". It seems like someone with more of a DIY attitude would be able to cut a lot of costs. "Artwork is $1000 for anything half decent" Really dude? Stock photo, texture overlay, logo import, couple layer styles, vignette filter. That cost you a grand? I know a lot of graphic designers who could knock that up in 20 minutes and wouldn't charge anywhere near that much. I'd probably opt to do it myself if I was on the down low, but being signed to a high profile label, you'd think they'd have an in house designer on retainer to handle shit. He's also flying from OZ to the US a lot. He could get an apartment for way less money than a single flight. Like assuming you're going to do this as your full time job, you should probably move to where you're playing shows instead of being upset at how expensive it is to fly to the other side of the planet every week. Kinda comes off like that friend who's always going on about how they have no money but they get drunk all the time, eat out constantly, blow money on bullshit, spend impulsively, etc.

rockonin wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

rockonin wrote:$1000 for artwork? Seriously?

I'd just take a photo of some graffity/abandoned buildings etc, turn it black and white in Photoshop and hey presto.

I think you forgot a step there.

Which step?

You forgot to invert it, dude.

SunkLo wrote:It seems fucked to me when I check out someone's ipod and it's a thousand different artists with a single song each. That shit is like only watching the climax scenes from all your favorite movies instead of watching one from start to finish.

No, it's more like watching an episode of The Walking Dead, then watching an episode of Archer, then watching some Family Guy. You see the whole episodes but don't get tired of the same thing.

I love having thousands of singles, I have customized playlists that I listen to and enjoy. I'd never want to go back to albums. It's music anyway, the whole "telling a story" thing is bollocks. Half the time they just throw random shit in there, "skits" I think they're called. I don't miss that BS.

Simulant wrote:It's music anyway, the whole "telling a story" thing is bollocks.

This kind of seems like a ridiculous statement to me. What else is bollocks? Communication? Artistic expression? Emotion? Catharsis? Atmosphere? I guess there's no room in music for the things that make music music anymore.

Granted there are definitely some weak "albums" which are a collection of a bunch of disjointed tracks and filler. No point in sitting all the way through those. But there are also some crucial albums that are fully cohesive and really deserve to be played in order. I guess it comes down to whether the artist went at it from the TV show angle or the movie angle.

The issue with the TV show to track analogy is that even still, a show lasts half an hour. Consuming media on a 5 minute interval seems really ADHD to me.

Wonder where noise artists feature in this, as their albums are really meant to be heard at complete stand pieces.

Maybe I am just a dense tnuc of a Philistine, but there are very few dance albums, even my favorites, that really feel like they tell a story. I think purely instrumental music can easily tell a story, I just dont hear it dance tunes. FWIW. IMHO. etc. Some restrictions may apply.

nowaysj wrote:

rockonin wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

rockonin wrote:$1000 for artwork? Seriously?

I'd just take a photo of some graffity/abandoned buildings etc, turn it black and white in Photoshop and hey presto.

I think you forgot a step there.

Which step?

You forgot to invert it, dude.

Damn that was slacking on my part, my bad.

SunkLo wrote:Yeah the radio single really commodified recorded music and butchered the album as an art form. What was once a 12 course meal is now Olive garden Breadsticks and a 'Thank You' mint. Initially singles were supposed to promote the LP, but radio got more popular than home listening to the point that the single has now basically replaced the LP.

So where was it decided that musicians should be writing 12 song thematic arcs? When did that emerge as a form? To my understanding that had more to do with recording mediums rather than artistic intentions. I mean why aren't artists releasing 80 song albums? The LP is an artificial construct, just like and EP. Its form has more to do with commerce and technology than artistic intention. No doubt artists brought intention into the form, but you and piccolo seem to think that the 12 song form descended from heaven, ordained as the standard of musical expression.

SunkLo wrote:If I hear one decent song and then listen to the rest of their music and it's trash, I don't even bother.

you get the track that you like and kick the rest to the curb. Making good songs is hard, many producers/musicians will go their whole career/life without making even one. If you find a good song, cherish it for what it is, take what you can from it.

SunkLo wrote:I think the shuffle feature on mp3 players helped kill the album as well.

SunkLo wrote:That shit is like only watching the climax scenes from all your favorite movies instead of watching one from start to finish.

If you want to keep it at that scale, it is like watching only the first 30-45 minutes of my favorite movies, which is fine as that is what I'm most interested in, as I get bored with film's mechanics of solving all the plot elements and resolving the arc, etc etc. I take what I like, I'm the author of my experience, even when experiencing the artistic output of other authors.

And I think that dude's artwork is pretty good. Like there is definitely more there than an inverted picture of some graffiti. There is some thought put into it, something that you album heads often lament is missing in the mp3 age.

rockonin wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

rockonin wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

rockonin wrote:$1000 for artwork? Seriously?

I'd just take a photo of some graffity/abandoned buildings etc, turn it black and white in Photoshop and hey presto.

I think you forgot a step there.

Which step?

You forgot to invert it, dude.

Damn that was slacking on my part, my bad.

Two rules every day: Button it up, invert it out.

SunkLo wrote:

Simulant wrote:It's music anyway, the whole "telling a story" thing is bollocks.

This kind of seems like a ridiculous statement to me. What else is bollocks? Communication? Artistic expression? Emotion? Catharsis? Atmosphere? I guess there's no room in music for the things that make music music anymore.

Granted there are definitely some weak "albums" which are a collection of a bunch of disjointed tracks and filler. No point in sitting all the way through those. But there are also some crucial albums that are fully cohesive and really deserve to be played in order. I guess it comes down to whether the artist went at it from the TV show angle or the movie angle.

The issue with the TV show to track analogy is that even still, a show lasts half an hour. Consuming media on a 5 minute interval seems really ADHD to me.

Well at the end of the day, if you enjoy listening to whole albums then that's up to you. I'm not going to argue the point or try to change your views, I was just pointing out that I didn't agree with what the guy said in the article - "buy albums not singles". I'm also pointing out that listening to singles is an equally valid way to enjoy music, and that plenty of us love it.

Strangely enough, nobody has mentioned mixes yet. That's like a load of the best bits strung together, you tend to lose a lot of intros and outros. Again, a lot of people prefer mixes to singles or albums.

"Buy albums not singles" is definitely a retarded thing to say if you're an EDM producer. Given that the albums basically are singles.

Mixes take it even further, you're getting a 2 minute slice of a 5 minute song from a 50 minute album. It annoys me when a DJ mixes out too quickly but it really depends on the song and type of music. I don't really need to listen to 5 minutes of the same bass riff and drum loop over and over. In that scenario, the DJ's basically doing the job of the lazy producers by arranging things in an interesting sequence. But if it's a track that develops over time you better let that shit play.

A lot of dance tracks don't even need to be the length they are any more. You could cram 12 songs into 20 minutes in a lot of cases. The DJ can just loop up your four bar intro and outro. Why stretch it out if you're just repeating yourself?

nowaysj wrote:

wolf89 wrote:

Simulant wrote:

zosomagik wrote:

Simulant wrote:I don't like the begging at the end - "Buy the EP instead of just one song." No, fuck off. I'll buy the songs I like.

I'm all for supporting artists, but not giving away my money to them like some sort of charity.

I feel what you're saying, but at the same time I feel like not enough people buy albums anymore. If you like a song on the album, buy the album. You never know what else is on there. It's like magic.

I'll listen to the album, and buy tracks that I like. One of the best things about the mp3 revolution was that I no longer had to buy an album full of shitty songs just because I liked one or two of them.

People like you are why the albums are shit though. People ain't gonna put in the effort to make an album as an album if it gets fucked up by people who won't listen to it properly anyway.

Dude. You're trying to tell me substandard tracks only starting appearing on albums once single song .mp3's were commonly for sale?

That's crazy even by internet forum standards.

I want to consume music however I want to Wolf, you're just going to have to deal with that.

Nah not saying that there haven't been albums with shitty tracks in the past. I collect enough old rock/prog rock/psych rock obscurities to be used to buying a record for one track but the point was is that the idea of writing an actual album is being ruined by downloads. I mean even when you had shitty records in the past with a gem on they at least felt like an album.

Dance music is kind of shitty at albums anyway. I meant in broader music. I mean if you're gonna go buy two tracks off a Mahavishnu Orchestra album based off itunes previews you're a dick