Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:07 pm
UFO over easy wrote:... if it weren't for house you'd have no dubstep. And four to the floor doesn't mean it's house.alan wrote:four on the floor is house music meaning its rubbish.
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:15 pm
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:17 pm
minimal/berlin dub?alan wrote:four on the floor is house music meaning its rubbish.
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:14 pm
UFO, i guess i had forgetten about anti-war dub. you can hardly tell there's a 4x4 beat after the main beat kicks in. i guess it's more obvious on the iron soul tracks.
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:18 pm
Neither statement there is true. The house=rubbish is a more likely to be true, but there is fantastic house, and I hate house, heh.alan wrote:four on the floor is house music meaning its rubbish.
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:19 pm
thc, the first few times I played AntiWar Dub, I had to step back and listen and remind myself it is indeed 4x4 - so very difficult to hear that in there. Amazing tune.
I've got a 3x4 tune I'm working on, lol.
I've got a 3x4 tune I'm working on, lol.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:41 am
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:10 am
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:14 am
desperate measures or STFU 
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:15 am
lolalan wrote:four on the floor is house music meaning its rubbish.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:37 am
4x4 tracks like Anti War Dub are more like Shaka-style "steppers" tracks -- 80s digidub tunes with a regular pulse and a half-tempo dub bassline. Warrior Stance is a good example. See the Jahtari site for more info. http://www.jahtari.org/magazine/uk-dub/dreadfred.htm.
This sort of synthesised, post-Sleng Teng digital dub was an important (and under-recognised) progenitor of British house music. It is also very obviously (and, I think, deliberately) a vital element of the roots of dubstep, reaching way back in the ardkore continuum to before jungle, before hardcore, before modern dance music itself into Brit reggae and soundsystem culture. People like early fast-chat MC Peter Bouncer are intertwined in the development of the music, going from reggae soundsystems and UK MC records to early ardkore and house (he recorded with Shut Up and Dance) into Jungle (he did stuff with Congo Natty). John Eden has written about this a lot on the Uncarved blog (http://uncarved.org/blog/?cat=6&paged=2).
This inter-relationship between the roots of dubstep and house is beginning to be recorgnised by some people in the house scene. There's a whole thread devoted to dubstep on the Faith forum (which is the pre-eminent "real house" forum). There are some people who don't like dubstep on there, but a surprising number who do - people like Simon Haggis (Whistlebump), Tom Churchill (Emoticon Records), and famous house music writer Frank Tope all dig the sound. I got a load of emails from Faith subscribers asking for the Dubstep Sufferah link.
So lets not be too down on house. If house is a feeling, and I think it is, then dubstep is house...
This sort of synthesised, post-Sleng Teng digital dub was an important (and under-recognised) progenitor of British house music. It is also very obviously (and, I think, deliberately) a vital element of the roots of dubstep, reaching way back in the ardkore continuum to before jungle, before hardcore, before modern dance music itself into Brit reggae and soundsystem culture. People like early fast-chat MC Peter Bouncer are intertwined in the development of the music, going from reggae soundsystems and UK MC records to early ardkore and house (he recorded with Shut Up and Dance) into Jungle (he did stuff with Congo Natty). John Eden has written about this a lot on the Uncarved blog (http://uncarved.org/blog/?cat=6&paged=2).
This inter-relationship between the roots of dubstep and house is beginning to be recorgnised by some people in the house scene. There's a whole thread devoted to dubstep on the Faith forum (which is the pre-eminent "real house" forum). There are some people who don't like dubstep on there, but a surprising number who do - people like Simon Haggis (Whistlebump), Tom Churchill (Emoticon Records), and famous house music writer Frank Tope all dig the sound. I got a load of emails from Faith subscribers asking for the Dubstep Sufferah link.
So lets not be too down on house. If house is a feeling, and I think it is, then dubstep is house...
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:08 pm
Not everyone knows about house music - it's a Spiritual thing, a SOUL thingalan wrote:four on the floor is house music meaning its rubbish.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:14 pm
Remember when we say '4/4' in the dubstep context it does mean something slightly different than straight 4/4 as in house or even early uk garage.
Its like a virtual, spectral 4/4, more of gesture at 4/4 rather than solid kicks on every 4th.
There have been lots of quasi 4/4 tunes in the history of dubstep post-2001...the Hatcha ep on tempa is almost four to the floor, people were talking about 'three-beat' in about 2002/3 for a few months, there are some 4/4 Horsepower tracks.
Lots of things to explore in dubstep still.
Its like a virtual, spectral 4/4, more of gesture at 4/4 rather than solid kicks on every 4th.
There have been lots of quasi 4/4 tunes in the history of dubstep post-2001...the Hatcha ep on tempa is almost four to the floor, people were talking about 'three-beat' in about 2002/3 for a few months, there are some 4/4 Horsepower tracks.
Lots of things to explore in dubstep still.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:31 pm
word.Logos wrote:
Lots of things to explore in dubstep still.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:11 pm
I wanna make 6/8 breaks...subframe wrote:thc, the first few times I played AntiWar Dub, I had to step back and listen and remind myself it is indeed 4x4 - so very difficult to hear that in there. Amazing tune.
I've got a 3x4 tune I'm working on, lol.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:50 pm
Semantic spookery
I think dubstep should b left alone by the word-geeks.
Things that came before dubstep; Jungle, hardcore, techno, house, garage (4/4 and 2-step) etc
But dubstep "transcends" these categories and shines new light on them. Let it do it's work. Basically expect to be surprised, dont try explaining it too much, comparing too much, chattin it's name too much.
It's jus evolution, lets keep it like that yea??
"4/4" tells u nothin bout the tune- the fact people are talkin bout "stepping back" and "remembering" it's a 4/4 tune means they're listening with their heads not their hearts.
4/4 done by a dubstep artist is not gonna sound like 4/4 done by other artists. See it for what IT IS.
I think dubstep should b left alone by the word-geeks.
Things that came before dubstep; Jungle, hardcore, techno, house, garage (4/4 and 2-step) etc
But dubstep "transcends" these categories and shines new light on them. Let it do it's work. Basically expect to be surprised, dont try explaining it too much, comparing too much, chattin it's name too much.
It's jus evolution, lets keep it like that yea??
"4/4" tells u nothin bout the tune- the fact people are talkin bout "stepping back" and "remembering" it's a 4/4 tune means they're listening with their heads not their hearts.
4/4 done by a dubstep artist is not gonna sound like 4/4 done by other artists. See it for what IT IS.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:26 pm
I agree with your post for the most part, but I'd like to point out that ^^^ is actually not what I meant. Needing to step back and 'listen with my head' is a really really good thing - it means that most of the time, it's the other way around.Amen-Ra wrote: "4/4" tells u nothin bout the tune- the fact people are talkin bout "stepping back" and "remembering" it's a 4/4 tune means they're listening with their heads not their hearts.
.
Which is a fantastic aspect of this music - it truly has feeling, it's got soul.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:28 pm
The history is part of the feeling.
"Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it."
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:13 pm
tune was duppy. skepta production, known dubstep wise for the duppy vs request line mix. which is rude. and i thought it went down well. you lot are too bothered about is and isn'ts, init...UFO over easy wrote:It was funky house at 140bpmramadanman wrote: oh yeh and that geenus track at FWD was a bit odd really, didn't think it went down that well
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:18 pm
I just didn't like the tune.peripheral wrote:you lot are too bothered about is and isn'ts, init...