digital release vs physical

[mod3rn0]

If your gonna rip/blog/DL one of our tunes prior to its digital release, you were never gonna buy it anyway...

that's not true! i bought tons of tunes that i previously downladed somewhere just because i loved them, and it seemed pretty fair to me paying for them.

One area i think that does need addressing is the slow speed in which physical releases are released after they're play on radio and in clubs. Tempa stuff for instance, amazing music, hammered in the clubs and on the radio but no release. I'll be honest, Skreamizm 5 for me was whacked to death pre release and i still havn't bought it, simply because other tracks have come along and taken my attention and excitement that week. Same for the Benga EP recently.

i'm totally with you for that!

[SHAFEY]

what other digital release shops are there with a lot of dubstep?

Lots of exclusives at www.sonicboomuk.com

Big up the digi massive! Horses for courses.

[thinking]

The reasoning is because vinyl sales are tanking right now due to financial crisis.

who told you that. I would argue absolutely the opposite.

edit: to expand on the vinyl/digital delay, there is still the perceived problem of filesharing - a digital version is one degree easier to share, and also a faithful copy as opposed to a vinyl rip. That small amount of lag time is to try and minimise the effect on vinyl sales.

[surface_tension]

The reasoning is because vinyl sales are tanking right now due to financial crisis.

who told you that. I would argue absolutely the opposite.

edit: to expand on the vinyl/digital delay, there is still the perceived problem of filesharing - a digital version is one degree easier to share, and also a faithful copy as opposed to a vinyl rip. That small amount of lag time is to try and minimise the effect on vinyl sales.

Our contact with our distributor told me this, as well as everyone else on the planet that I know that sells vinyl. As well as the head of Planet Mu who was lamenting the lack of sales as early as 2 years ago if I remember correctly.I agree with you on the issue of digital being easier to share and more faithful in general, hence why it is easy to share. Also there is a bit of a quality control element that hasn't been discussed in THIS discussion yet I don't think, though it's been beaten to death in other similar conversations.

I also wouldn't argue that anyone should neglect digital users in favor of vinyl. Stuff will leak invariably and we should learn to live with a certain amount of that piracy, but that doesn't mean we should encourage or not attempt to prevent it to a degree. If you can prevent 20 thefts, that is worth it, IMO.

[manray]

I'm not saying my philosophy is better or worse, it just IS. I'd rather lose money on my own terms. And if you think that those Scallywags at *** and ******* don't have money, when they have BANKS AND BANKS AND BANKS of servers running at a great cost, you are mistaken.

It's illegal, the law has already ruled on this in most countries... if you are within a country where I can take you to court I will.

Sorry bro but you are talking shit on a scale I've not seen on these forums so far.

Going after the sites is extremely difficult because by and large they don't host the content. TorrentSpy was the largest trackers in the world and it was targeted by the MPAA and they eventually ended up in court. Because TorrentSpy did not host the material themselves they were immune from prosecution so the judge had to order them to log user information so that the MPAA could track down the actual file sharers. Eventually they shut down because they obviously would prefer not to help THE MAN in prosecuting people.

I think it's extremely short sited of yourself, and actually rather dumb, to go on about taking trackers to court with class action lawsuits and the rest of the bollocks because A) you don't have as much money as the MPAA and B) you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

I think you have to ask yourself here why so many people who supposedly care about record sales and how the scene is doing would be so quick to dismiss someone who would be willing to put their own money up to take down these trackers. It costs you nothing for me to do it. So why not just say "good luck" instead of being THAT GUY. You're not unique for telling me I can't do something. People told me I couldn't quit my job and invest in this market and not lose my shirt. I now have a closet full of shirts, which used to belong to THAT GUY.

Because it doesn't work. You are living in the past bro. Nowadays information is so quickly distributed and shared that you have absolutely no fucking chance of stopping your material getting out. Stop wasting your time and look to the future because whoever works this one out could get very very rich.

Personally I think the industry has taken so fucking long to react that it's almost an impossible task now.

When MP3s were first starting to get popular some clever executives should have pounced on it. Napster filled that gap illegally but if they had been clever and put their entire catalogues online at a decent price from the start then I think they could have made a bit dent into the illegal scene and stopped it from becoming mainstream.

Now that pirating and torrents is mainstream it's considered socially acceptable. The damage is done and the hard work now is turning that around.

[m2j]

Vinyl cant be beaten...........However.....

Due to the amount of space it takes up and it,s cost i feel im being forced onto laptop

I suppose i have left it long enough so that the technology is more "reliable" but's not the same

[thinking]

The reasoning is because vinyl sales are tanking right now due to financial crisis.

who told you that. I would argue absolutely the opposite.

edit: to expand on the vinyl/digital delay, there is still the perceived problem of filesharing - a digital version is one degree easier to share, and also a faithful copy as opposed to a vinyl rip. That small amount of lag time is to try and minimise the effect on vinyl sales.

Our contact with our distributor told me this, as well as everyone else on the planet that I know that sells vinyl. As well as the head of Planet Mu who was lamenting the lack of sales as early as 2 years ago if I remember correctly.

A contact with a distro, who? I wasn't aware your label released vinyl?

I chat to every major dubstep distro on a daily/weekls basis, including STH, SRD, Z Audio, Baked Goods, Cargo, Load Media and Nu-Urban. I work as the dubstep buyer for the largest (in terms of sales) retailer of dubstep in the world. I am telling you categorically that vinyl sales are up - not just in terms of the number of releases, which would be apparent to anyone, but also in the amount of units that the better quality releases are selling.

As for Mike P lamenting the lack of sales, he was certainly a few (3-4) years ago when Planet Mu wasn't doing so great, but since he made some shrewd dubstep signings including Vex'd, Boxcutter, Pinch, MRK1/Virus Syndicate, Starkey, Distance and Mary Anne Hobbs, it would be hard to argue that Planet µ was a textbook example of an ailing label. Why would any label in such poor shape have put out over 100 releases in the last 4 years?


I'm sorry if I come across as confrontational - this is not my aim - however your notion of dubstep vinyl sales is simply not correct, nor does it seem based on fact, and I want to set the 'record' straight.

Of course if you're not talking about dubstep vinyl exclusively, then you may have a point - DnB, house/trance etc are all down on a few years ago - but on the other hand digital sales are through the roof which helps to redress the balance. Also, vinyl sales worldwide for ALL types of music are rising significantly at the moment - check this link out for starters:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/ ... 3656.story

"You have to get in line now at these pressing plants, which is amazing, because vinyl was virtually non-existent two or three years ago," adds Bill Gagnon, senior vice president of catalog marketing at EMI Music."

[armada]

^that is an interesting article. this economic downturn has me buying MORE vinyl, namely because the pound is so weak vs the dollar now (1quid = $1.50 rather than $2 as it was this time last year). i will continue buying tunes and releases i really love on vinyl. i would like to see more tunes that are released exclusively on vinyl.

i feel like a kid on christmas morning when i see the mailman bringing up the white envelope with my new records. its great.

[Littlefoot]

keep vinyl alive.

[erra]

keep vinyl alive.

Standard. Vinyl all day long

[balloonhead]

erra lives for the physical

[seckle]

thinking on point as per.....

[djshiva]

If I find our tunes on a blog, that entire server and the owner of said blog will be hit with a lawsuit.

Can you explain how this is economically viable?

He's puffing out his chest again. I'm used to it.

It wouldn't be economically viable at all, and as partner in this venture, you could probably hear the argument from miles away were that to happen. LOL.

My method would be to just ask nicely for someone to take it down and then cajole said blog into covering the label with a nice interview and the feeling of having averted becoming a eunich.

[manray]

He's puffing out his chest again. I'm used to it.

It wouldn't be economically viable at all, and as partner in this venture, you could probably hear the argument from miles away were that to happen. LOL.

My method would be to just ask nicely for someone to take it down and then cajole said blog into covering the label with a nice interview and the feeling of having averted becoming a eunich.

I think that's a much better way to go about it. Be nice and I think generally people will be nice back.

[surface_tension]

PM Thinking.

In the PM, I basically explain it like this...

So a distributor of 3 labels last year has 3000 record sales... 1000 for each label. Then sees this success for those 3 labels and signed 5 more labels, which then sell 500 copies each...

Last year: 3000
This year: 2500

Net loss. So assume they signed 50 labels instead, which then sold 500 copies each. Yea, the Distributor made a profit, so did those labels... they didn't sell 1000 copies though, so the likely percentage of sales PER LABEL is down. And that is what I am referring to here. That would equal a net loss in my eyes. Great, there are more labels doing worse than they were when there were less labels. In any case, I'd definitely try to work things out--but I wouldn't thank a blog owner by providing them more content. How does that help our cause... they post a link, that link spreads, those spread links spread further...

[daggus]

edit

[djshiva]

^^^
nothin wrong with tryin' to explain yerself. he wasn't being a dick in that last post. let's all smoke a fatty and turn up the bass, shall we?

anyhow, back to the topic. i understand that a lot of folks believe that holding back the digital release is a way to sell more records, and while i can see the assumption there (that holding back the digi will sell more vinyl), i don't necessarily agree with it.

i will concede that dubstep is still a predominantly vinyl-centric culture. but i will not concede that all people who buy dubstep will buy the vinyl just because they have to wait a few weeks for digital. i don't. i just wait the few weeks for digital and buy it when it comes out. i don't really give a rat's ass if i have it when everyone else does, i just kinda feel put off by being considered a second tier buyer just based on the format i choose to buy/play.

i get it on a financial level. you want to guarantee the most vinyl sales possible (totally understandable, considering the cost involved). i just question the myth of the digital buyer shrugging it off and coughing up money for vinyl if they don't have the money/want the vinyl/need the vinyl. i think it's a fallacy that this actually works as far as selling more vinyl.

course, i am just basing that on pure conjecture, but so is everyone else, since it's kinda hard to gauge the buyer's intent/wishes/plans when they make a music purchase.

[daggus]

well the post was responding to was edited by time mine went up ... taken it down anyway. Like i said not interested in arguing, but dont like some of the tone of this thread. Doesnt come across well.

carry on

[surface_tension]

well the post was responding to was edited by time mine went up ... taken it down anyway. Like i said not interested in arguing, but dont like some of the tone of this thread. Doesnt come across well.

carry on

I agree, I probably came off like a real asshole above, thus I edited the post and explained myself instead. That doesn't excuse it. Just consider for a moment that you caught someone robbing your neighbors house. Now pretend for a moment that your neighbor had borrowed your turntables or something and you witness the bastards leaving the house with your turntables. All of the sudden you have a financial interest, more than an outside interest in not having that sort of stuff in your neighborhood.

Not only is your neighbor being harmed. You are. Your neighborhood is. Society is. And you have the power to stop that one guy, but you can't stop them all. I know this.

The correct answer is probably a combination of picking battles and the like, as well as every other method posted here... and probably some that weren't posted here. I don't imply that I have all the answers here.

[daggus]

fair enough mate, my post was bit harsh. hence why ive taken it down. Guess its very easy to misinterpret someones tone on a forum.

I wouldn't like to think how furious i'd be if someone stole my decks, hopefully you manage to get it sorted.