It is now funny to flaunt male nudity all over a movie??

[tr0tsky]

Although, let me state that SBC is a cleaver bastard who uses his skill in making bigots look stupid because of their bigotry.

[surface_tension]

People don't say "thats homosexual" or "thats homophobe."

It has no prejudice behind it and if you take it that way you need to calm down a bit.

I'm not going to judge somebody as a bad person by saying "thats jewish" to describe somebody as greedy. They aren't burning crosses and banning gay marriage. It's not hateful, it's slang that has been around for quite a while.

There are lots of things that have been around for a while, but that doesn't mean that it's cool by virtue of how long it's been around. How long were there slaves? Since the beginning of time. What all of the sudden made slavery wrong?

The correct answer is that slavery is and has always been wrong.

Applying negative connotation to the word GAY is highly offensive to gay persons, I can assure you of that. It's really easy to say "hey calm down" when you haven't had some shit like that thrown in your face your entire life, or seen how badly it hurts your friends to know that other people think the way they were born should be synonymous with stupid, ridiculous(coming from the term RIDICULE!) etc...

Gay bashing, be it direct or indirect through less obvious means, is wrong. It doesn't matter if you intended it to be offensive, it's offensive. You've been told it's offensive and rather than correcting your offensive behavior sought to talk your way around it.

Kinda like calling people a tnuc. Hell, I didn't know there was anything wrong with calling someone a tnuc, be they a guy or a girl, until my own label mate called me out for it and asked how I would feel if every time someone was pissing me off, I immediately associated the negative with being a woman. I guess at the time I didn't think about it. But I guess I wouldn't because as a man, I've never been looked down on simply because I had a penis. I've never felt less than the opposite sex. Or been harassed for my sexuality. Just because it doesn't bother me personally doesn't mean that it isn't hurtful and offensive to someone else.

What about gash?

Women are being reduced to the sum of their parts... but not just any part, their vagina is more or less being equated to a festering bloody flesh wound. It's depersonalization at it's worst and it's fucking disgusting. There comes a time when "this is how it's always been done" needs to become "how it used to be"

that time is now.

[pk-]

Kinda like calling people a tnuc. Hell, I didn't know there was anything wrong with calling someone a tnuc, be they a guy or a girl, until my own label mate called me out for it and asked how I would feel if every time someone was pissing me off, I immediately associated the negative with being a woman.

that's not what calling someone a 'tnuc' is doing

are you associating the negative with being a man when you call someone a 'cock'?

[missedthebus]

haha ur gehy

Clearly. My life partner and I just adopted this baby from Vietnam.

I hope you offset its carbon footprint

[magma]

Applying negative connotation to the word GAY is highly offensive to some gay persons, I can assure you of that.

Fixed. I know plenty of gay people (my ex is a fashion designer, my current girlfriend works in fashion too) that are more than happy to describe unfortunate things as "gay".... that's not to say I necessarily feel comfortable using it around them, but to say that it is offensive to all gay people is, frankly, just as unhelpful a stereotype.

So anyway - what about the tradition of confronting bigotry by making public fools of bigots? As I mentioned... Stetson Kennedy turned the KKK into a laughing stock by exposing their traditions in Superman episodes and Alf Garnett made it obvious to the British public that racists are, largely, irrational idiots. If you turn the public against a certain type of bigotry then people begin frown on it publically - it's a surprisingly effective technique.

I haven't seen this, so can't judge if he went too far, but I thought Borat was spot on.

[aftee]

People don't say "thats homosexual" or "thats homophobe."

It has no prejudice behind it and if you take it that way you need to calm down a bit.

I'm not going to judge somebody as a bad person by saying "thats jewish" to describe somebody as greedy. They aren't burning crosses and banning gay marriage. It's not hateful, it's slang that has been around for quite a while.

Applying negative connotation to the word GAY is highly offensive to gay persons, I can assure you of that. It's really easy to say "hey calm down" when you haven't had some shit like that thrown in your face your entire life, or seen how badly it hurts your friends to know that other people think the way they were born should be synonymous with stupid, ridiculous(coming from the term RIDICULE!) etc...

Since when do you know my personal life? Bringing slavery and racial slurs into this is a completely different subject. Surely you don't know me and surely you don't know every homosexual on the planet and can not decide for the whole of them that they find that term offensive.

It is not said with meaning behind it to insult gay people. If you take it that way there is a problem with YOU, not the millions of people saying it. Lighten up. It's hate speech to call somebody a dick or a tnuc now? Is it racist to speak spanish because the word "negro" means black? No, it's only seen that way by the people taking their life too seriously.

[Dead Rats]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS0GVOQPs0

I remember you showing me this advert, Surface Tension, as if to cause some sort of flair of realization.

I then remember running to the bathroom to be violently sick.

[surface_tension]

Kinda like calling people a tnuc. Hell, I didn't know there was anything wrong with calling someone a tnuc, be they a guy or a girl, until my own label mate called me out for it and asked how I would feel if every time someone was pissing me off, I immediately associated the negative with being a woman.

that's not what calling someone a 'tnuc' is doing

are you associating the negative with being a man when you call someone a 'cock'?

If you are taking a trait about a person that they were born with or otherwise cannot change about themselves, be it their ethnicity, race, sex, gender identity, religion(in terms of being born Hebrew or Muslim etc, by virtue of birth in a family which practices) and applying a negative connotation to that, I'd say it represents blatant bigotry. Even if you don't mean it to be offensive it will be.

Will all men be offended when hearing someone called a prick? No. The reason for that probably has to do with men not receiving lower pay, being second class citizens and more or less being expected to exist as nothing more than a transport for children, a hole to fuck, and nothing more than a silent partner at best in relationships...

Most straight persons probably won't take much offense to having everything bad in the world being associated with GAY either. It's actually highly unfortunate that I even need to explain this. It doesn't even need to make sense does it? When emotions are involved, and the topic is gender identity, race, etc... is it not better to air on the side of "gee, maybe I should shut my fucking mouth." ?

I'm still growing and learning myself. I'm sure I say offensive shit every day. People call me on it a lot. If I've said something in the past that has truly hurt someone's feelings in a deep way, I always try and apologize and make that wrong right. I don't try and explain my way out of it. Sometimes I'm just fucking wrong. Applying negative connotation to the term that is used to describe homosexuals is wrong. It isolates people and makes them feel unwelcome, like they don't belong in society. Music crosses racial and gender boundaries unlike most other things in society. This is something that everyone can share. Everyone should feel welcome to take part. When the lines are drawn, people must choose which side of the line to stand on. Erase the lines in terms of race, religion, ethnicity and gender identity ffs.

I know for a fact that my label partner finds it highly offensive when everything is gay this, gay that. I wouldn't exactly call her the emotional one of the two of us either. She's normally way more calm than I am when I see this shit. But it has been expressed how hurtful it is, I'll be damned if I watch it go on and don't say shit. I'd be betraying her and friends and family who are gay, as well as those who are not openly gay who probably post on this forum. Why should they ever open up and feel like a part of the human race if we give them such inhuman treatment, ya know?

[pk-]

If you are taking a trait about a person that they were born with or otherwise cannot change about themselves, be it their ethnicity, race, sex, gender identity, religion(in terms of being born Hebrew or Muslim etc, by virtue of birth in a family which practices) and applying a negative connotation to that, I'd say it represents blatant bigotry. Even if you don't mean it to be offensive it will be.

Oh I'm not suggesting that some women don't find it offensive, and fair enough that's their prerogative. I just think the intention is always completely misinterpreted - you're not suggesting anything feminine (negative or otherwise) about someone when you call them a tnuc, it's just a vulgar word. Similarly you're not suggesting anything masculine about them when you call them a 'bell end'.

So anyway - what about the tradition of confronting bigotry by making public fools of bigots? As I mentioned... Stetson Kennedy turned the KKK into a laughing stock by exposing their traditions in Superman episodes and Alf Garnett made it obvious to the British public that racists are, largely, irrational idiots. If you turn the public against a certain type of bigotry then people begin frown on it publically - it's a surprisingly effective technique.

absolutely, mockery is the best way to undermine hatred.

Although I have to say I preferred Borat when it was more about how much discomfort and embarassment fairly posh British people would take before saying anything

[missedthebus]

Bruno is just fabulous dharling!

[surface_tension]

People don't say "thats homosexual" or "thats homophobe."

It has no prejudice behind it and if you take it that way you need to calm down a bit.

I'm not going to judge somebody as a bad person by saying "thats jewish" to describe somebody as greedy. They aren't burning crosses and banning gay marriage. It's not hateful, it's slang that has been around for quite a while.

Applying negative connotation to the word GAY is highly offensive to gay persons, I can assure you of that. It's really easy to say "hey calm down" when you haven't had some shit like that thrown in your face your entire life, or seen how badly it hurts your friends to know that other people think the way they were born should be synonymous with stupid, ridiculous(coming from the term RIDICULE!) etc...

Since when do you know my personal life? Bringing slavery and racial slurs into this is a completely different subject. Surely you don't know me and surely you don't know every homosexual on the planet and can not decide for the whole of them that they find that term offensive.

It is not said with meaning behind it to insult gay people. If you take it that way there is a problem with YOU, not the millions of people saying it. Lighten up. It's hate speech to call somebody a dick or a tnuc now? Is it racist to speak spanish because the word "negro" means black? No, it's only seen that way by the people taking their life too seriously.

negro isn't a racial slur though, is it dumbass?

History lesson:

Negro is a term referring to people of Black ancestry. Prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s, the appellation was accepted as a normal completely neutral formal term both by those of Black African descent as well as those of non-African black descent. During the American Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s, some African American leaders objected to the term, preferring the term Black. During the 1960s Negro came to be considered an ethnic slur. The term is now considered archaic and is not commonly used as a racist slur. The term is still used in some contexts for historical reasons such as in the name of the United Negro College Fund. or the Negro league in sports. "Negro" means "black" in Spanish, Portuguese, and ancient Italian; all of these derive from the Latin niger (i.e., "black").

"Negro" superseded "colored" as the most polite terminology, at a time when "black" was still generally regarded as negative.

----

or this...

When used with a derisive attitude (e.g. "that was so gay"), the word gay is pejorative. While retaining its other meanings, it has also acquired "a widespread current usage" amongst young people, as a general term of disparagement. This pejorative usage has its origins in the late 1970s. Beginning in the 1980s and especially in the late 1990s, the usage as a generic insult became common among young people.

This usage of the word has been criticized as homophobic. A 2006 BBC ruling by the Board of Governors over the use of the word in this context by Chris Moyles on his Radio 1 show, "I don't want that one, it's gay," advises "caution on its use" for this reason:

"The word ‘gay’, in addition to being used to mean ‘homosexual’ or ‘carefree’, was often now used to mean ‘lame’ or ‘rubbish’. This is a widespread current usage of the word amongst young people... The word 'gay' ... need not be offensive... or homophobic [...] The governors said, however, that Moyles was simply keeping up with developments in English usage. [...] The committee... was "familiar with hearing this word in this context." The governors believed that in describing a ring tone as 'gay', the DJ was conveying that he thought it was 'rubbish', rather than 'homosexual'. [...] The panel acknowledged however that this use... in a derogatory sense... could cause offence in some listeners, and counselled caution on its use.”

—BBC Board of Governors

or...

The BBC's ruling was heavily criticised by the Minister for Childen, Kevin Brennan, who stated in response that "the casual use of homophobic language by mainstream radio DJs" is:

"too often seen as harmless banter instead of the offensive insult that it really represents. [...] To ignore this problem is to collude in it. The blind eye to casual name-calling, looking the other way because it is the easy option, is simply intolerable."

—Tony Grew,

Shortly after the Moyles incident a campaign against homophobia was launched in Britain under the slogan "homophobia is gay", playing on the double meaning of the word "gay" in youth culture.

[aftee]

I'm a dumbass now because you can rip shit off of websites you found on google?

Real easy to clear it up, DEFINITION OF THE WORD DOES NOT MATTER. It is how you USE the word, not what the technical "definition" of it is. By saying negro isn't racist according to the definition, you've basically contradicted your entire "gay" argument now, haven't you?

You say negro isn't racist but is just a term for an african american. Just like gay isn't hateful I suppose? It's just another term for homosexuals.

So if I say "thats so negro" or "thats black" you're saying it is ok, but saying "thats gay" isn't?

Don't call me a dumbass when you've managed to become a hypocrite and contradict your entire argument in one post, yet I'm sure you'll keep responding with something completely off topic to try and justify yourself once more...

[surface_tension]

I'm a dumbass now because you can rip shit off of websites you found on google?

Real easy to clear it up, DEFINITION OF THE WORD DOES NOT MATTER. It is how you USE the word, not what the technical "definition" of it is. By saying negro isn't racist according to the definition, you've basically contradicted your entire "gay" argument now, haven't you?

You say negro isn't racist but is just a term for an african american. Just like gay isn't hateful I suppose? It's just another term for homosexuals.

So if I say "thats so negro" or "thats black" you're saying it is ok, but saying "thats gay" isn't?

Don't call me a dumbass when you've managed to become a hypocrite and contradict your entire argument in one post, yet I'm sure you'll keep responding with something completely off topic to try and justify yourself once more...

No I didn't.

If I say Negro and a black man tells me it is offensive I will feel like a total piece of shit and apologize to that man and anyone else around him that might have been offended because I was too stupid to choose a word that was potentially close to a slur.

I'd admit when I was wrong. How about you?

Not likely. Gay is just another term for homosexuals, yes. You are right. And if I started saying "that's so homosexual" whenever something was stupid, or I found it to be reprehensible, I'd be wrong as you were when you said something was GAY and weren't talking about a person.

It doesn't matter what your intent was. If someone is offended they are offended. Rather than continuing to try and mask what you've done, just admit you were wrong. I don't think you're a piece of shit for doing it. I think you didn't understand that it would be offensive, just like when I didn't know that some people might find me calling someone a tnuc offensive. I was wrong. I did what you are doing now, I argued, I circled the wagons... I lost. In the end, no matter what excuse I came up with, I had hurt my friends feelings. I still to this day don't think I was WRONG, but I do know that she personally found it offensive, and it made me FEEL wrong. That says a bit about my character I imagine. I was offended. I've explained to you why it was offensive and how offensive that I know for a fact at least one gay person has explained it to me as more than just offensive, it makes them feel isolated from the world...

I mean take that in for a fucking second before you try and come back with some shit... maybe you're completely in the right here, maybe I'm completely wrong in my own way of thinking. I know when she comes here and reads this, she's going to probably feel as though you have negative feelings toward her as a person... so no matter what you or I think, no matter if you feel bad about it, you will have made an offensive and derogatory statement. You didn't mean to offend, that is great. You still did. You're still wrong.

I didn't mean to flunk my math test. I still did. I meant to get an A, that doesn't mean I get an A by virtue of my wishing it into existence.

Nothing else matters. It's offensive. The End. it's a pejorative term.

[badger]

"Thats gay" is along the lines of "thats stupid" clearly, it is not an insult to gays. It does not mean that all gays are stupid. Stop putting the two together.

do you seriously not see something wrong with it? most people won't be thinking about what they're saying so it may not be intentially offensive but that doesn't mean that it's at best an ignorant thing to say

We don't want your fucking business if you are a bigot. If you can't follow a philosophy of live and let live, or at the very least not spout your hateful bullshit, don't buy our shit. If you have already bought our releases and this includes you, get in contact with me and I'll buy the record back from you, we don't do business with bigots. Social sanctions are the way forward in terms of bigotry IMO.

how do you manage to make every post come back to your label somehow?

[aftee]

You can't please everybody. To some it might be offensive to others it is not. I've never met a homosexual person in my life that is offended by that, and my sister is a lesbian. I guess you can avoid it altogether by substituting a different word, but I still don't think it makes me "wrong" or a "bad person" for saying that.

There was, however, NO need for a fucking campaign to be launched about not saying "thats gay".

I'm sure their money could have been invested to better help the gay community than to launch advertisements that will do nothing but make people laugh at how out of proportion it's been taken. I will never purposefully insult somebody or offend them unless I have a reason to, but I'm not going to sit and re-think my life if one stuck up prissy bitch throws a hissy over a word because they are too worried about their lifestyle that they still let things like that hurt them.

Might be wandering off track now but just feel the need to post my opinion. There are no needs for gay parades and shit. The majority of gay people bitch DAY and NIGHT about just wanting to "fit in" with the rest of the world and be "normal". Then why on earth do you feel the need to march down the streets half-naked in tight leather shorts? Do I march down the street with a bunch of naked women to celebrate being straight? No, I do not.
If you want to be "socially accepted" and "fit in" then decking yourself out with rainbow gear and marching through the streets isn't the way. I can't fucking stand gay people that wear their rainbow shit all the time. Heterosexuals don't have a "flag" for our sexuality do we? If we do let me know, I'll let all of my friends and the rest of my family know so we can start flaunting it then bitching about how people see us as "different".

[magma]

Nothing else matters. It's offensive. The End. it's a pejorative term.

This is the important thing. But then, frankly, getting offended is a pretty minor thing. As long as no malice was intended then a rational person should not take offense... unfortunately, we have to make allowances for those that aren't totally logical (especially when it comes to taking offense to things) and people that won't realise that when someone says "Oh, gay...." they're actually using an entirely different definition of the word - notice that people don't tend to use synonyms for that one - it's always "gay" - which goes a bit further to show that it has a definition as "lame, poor, bad" etc as well as it's definitions of "homosexual" and "happy, care-free" etc.

But you're right. Not all members of society have thought about it long enough and are quite happy to get offended by it... so it's probably best not to use it. Just as it's probably best that people don't use the n-word - that can be considered to have different, more acceptable definitions within certain communities, but it is so offensive in others that it's very difficult to ever argue it's usage is warranted.

[firky]

Bruno is a gay stereotype exaggerated to the max for comic effect and also designed to expose peoples innate prejudices [seems to have worked pretty well in your case ].thinks you're missing the point somewhat here.

What he said ^

"I am not homophobic but...."
"I am not racist but...."
"I am not sexist but...."

etc.

Didn't bother me tbh, comfortable enough with my own sexuality for one not to be uncomfortable among male nudity. It's just a cock, I have one - big deal!?

[surface_tension]

how do you manage to make every post come back to your label somehow?

every time I post an opinion that someone doesn't like, a few people who wouldn't have ever bought our releases anyway threaten not to buy our releases... I was pre-empting them by saying I don't care, and in fact would prefer that people who have a problem fuck off instead of bothering to tell me that they won't be buying our releases.

They know that in the scheme of things their buying power doesn't stack up to their power to run their mouth and potentially cost us further sales if someone else were to read it and say "I agree with this guys opinion, so I too will not buy Surface Tension releases"

And again, I say... Good.

Now I answered your question, you answer mine... with the exception of today, I haven't hardly posted on DSF in like 2 months.. maybe 50 times in that span and 95% of those posts had nothing to do with the label...

how is it that you can always make every post about my label somehow?

[Dead Rats]

I go well beyond using the word 'gay', if something tastes bad I'll be like 'Oh man, this chicken kiev takes it up the bum'.

[firky]

I go well beyond using the word 'gay', if something tastes bad I'll be like 'Oh man, this chicken kiev takes it up the bum'.

You hate filled gallus domesticus homophobe