Dubstepforum.com

Let's keep the tone civil folks. No name-calling/ad hominem stuff please.

capo ultra wrote:the guy will come good in the end. Blame the thought process not the man!

condescension doesn't really work when you've constantly been outwitted

noam wrote: he'll have a new name, live in a place where no one knows him from jack and the likelihood is he'll never be found unless he's sold out

noam wrote:ive said about a million times i meant the prison population...

capo ultra wrote:

noam wrote: he'll have a new name, live in a place where no one knows him from jack and the likelihood is he'll never be found unless he's sold out

noam wrote:ive said about a million times i meant the prison population...

yeh, once he's released... i dont see the problem here??

noam wrote:you dont see the hypocrisy in rationalising murdering rational people for rationally believing its okay to kill...?? like thats the dumbest argument ever

secondly, i meant gen pop in prison, not public... yet

but yes, i believe everyone should be given the chance to rehabilitate, its the very definition of civilised, progressive, enlightened society

you do your best otherwise they dont stop winning

if you kill him, he becomes a martyr for those who share any sort of the same belief system as him

if you rehabilitate him you kill everything he once stood for, you kill the idea behind the action as opposed to the man who has already done it...

if you fail at least you tried...

see there we go Capo it was right there on page 2...

noam wrote:

parkour_nico wrote:

capo ultra wrote:

noam wrote:

capo ultra wrote:'correctness' is an analytical proposition and therefore only exists in the mind of one who conceives of it

where did you get that from?

my brain innit

herein lies the basis to my outrage, disbelief and general shaking of heads shared by fellow ninjas.

without launching a personal attack, i believe you can attempt to explain things, through theories and logic read/learned from books, but ultimately it's just theorising, it can never ever explain the true reasons why breivik did these things.

the fact that you question a fellow ninja "where did you get that from" to me shows an amazing naivety, and arrogance. you can''t believe that something so profound can come from one of your peers, it must be from books/theory/great minds, that you ostensibly use on a dubstep forum, to systematically (in your view) intellectually destroy others by dissecting their arguments, happily telling them why and how they are wrong.

this is the main reason myself and others are so upset, the simple concept that a seemingly rational-minded person can see there is any argument here. breivik deserves nothing

wow

literally... wow

i asked cos it didn't make sense lol not cos it was so amazingly profound that i couldn't comprehend it coming from THE MIND OF A FELLOW NINJA

(soz capo, i dont wana be sat here taking the piss but your mate there is chattin MAKKAHHHHHHH)

this thread is fucked, based on peoples dislike for myself and my argument i reckon Britain could actually bring back the death penalty if it was down to this forum, imagine!! hilarious, great job guys, keep it up

I love how you've created this argument then used it to forge a fantasy whereby we approve of the death penalty. I'm saying treating him like a regular human being is clearly out of order.
anyway, I got tired of facepalming so much I was afraid I was gonna have a permanent red hand mark slapped across my face. I can't help but feel noam that you actually enjoy this argument more than really feeling or understanding the motivations behind having it in the first place.
Still you ramble on about rehabilitation and "people turning a corner"
Why do you actually do this? Cos I want to get to the crux of the issue here cos I feel it's stuck behind a corner and you aren't getting it out in the open properly. Why do you want Breivik rehabilitated so badly? Is he your mate or something?

For a start, nobody here has really properly edified the desire to have Breivik killed, yet you keep banging on about the death penalty as if someone had opened the thread "we should bring back the death penalty". How on earth this has turned into a discussion of "kill him now or he will be definitely be killed later by either prison inmates or the general populace or blahblahblah"

I just don't even understand what is going on in this thread anymore.
I'm certainly not coming back to it either. People are just talking pure shit now in an attempt to win an argument that doesn't even need to be had.

He has to be treated like a human being because thats what he is. We can't apply subjective criteria to what is and isn't human. Have you considered the implications of not treating him as such? Consider what dehumanising him actually entails and consider whether that's ever a positive process.

Wanting him to be treated to a standard he denied everyone he touched doesn't make his actions any less horrific. It also isn't personal or wanting to be his friend it's about having a minimum standard that everyone should be treated to irrespective of what they've done or who they are.

scspkr99 wrote:He has to be treated like a human being because thats what he is. We can't apply subjective criteria to what is and isn't human. Have you considered the implications of not treating him as such? Consider what dehumanising him actually entails and consider whether that's ever a positive process.

Wanting him to be treated to a standard he denied everyone he touched doesn't make his actions any less horrific. It also isn't personal or wanting to be his friend it's about having a minimum standard that everyone should be treated to irrespective of what they've done or who they are.

noam wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:He has to be treated like a human being because thats what he is. We can't apply subjective criteria to what is and isn't human. Have you considered the implications of not treating him as such? Consider what dehumanising him actually entails and consider whether that's ever a positive process.

Wanting him to be treated to a standard he denied everyone he touched doesn't make his actions any less horrific. It also isn't personal or wanting to be his friend it's about having a minimum standard that everyone should be treated to irrespective of what they've done or who they are.

lock thread, let's just corndance the night away

scspkr99 wrote:He has to be treated like a human being because thats what he is. We can't apply subjective criteria to what is and isn't human. Have you considered the implications of not treating him as such? Consider what dehumanising him actually entails and consider whether that's ever a positive process.

Wanting him to be treated to a standard he denied everyone he touched doesn't make his actions any less horrific. It also isn't personal or wanting to be his friend it's about having a minimum standard that everyone should be treated to irrespective of what they've done or who they are.

gold!

i have no minimum standard of how to treat human beings. Human beings are capable of very bad actions. If any person killed or tried to kill even one person who was close to me, I'd kill them in a heartbeat and I'm willing to bet not one of you would hesitate to do the same. It's easy to sit here and try to play the moral high ground by saying he deserves to have a go at rehabilitation.
change any one of those 77 victims to a single person close to you, and you'd forget all about that bullshit.

there are 2 different questions:

1) how should/would you react if somebody you know is murdered?

2) how should the justice system deal with murderers?

they don't have the same answer. revenge is not justice.

if you can't get past the revenge, you're not a fit person to decide what the justice system should do. i don't expect the familes of victims to suspend their natural emotional reactions and give an objective opinion about what should be done. hardly anybody is capable of that. but that's exactly what the justice system is supposed to do.

Today wrote:i have no minimum standard of how to treat human beings. Human beings are capable of very bad actions. If any person killed or tried to kill even one person who was close to me, I'd kill them in a heartbeat and I'm willing to bet not one of you would hesitate to do the same. It's easy to sit here and try to play the moral high ground by saying he deserves to have a go at rehabilitation.
change any one of those 77 victims to a single person close to you, and you'd forget all about that bullshit.

This logic shouldn't apply when sentencing someone though, as said above, your looking for justice not revenge.

If someone stole my little brothers bike I'd probably wanna give them a beating, but that does not mean the punishment for robbing a bike should be getting physically attacked.

Today wrote:i have no minimum standard of how to treat human beings. Human beings are capable of very bad actions. If any person killed or tried to kill even one person who was close to me, I'd kill them in a heartbeat and I'm willing to bet not one of you would hesitate to do the same. It's easy to sit here and try to play the moral high ground by saying he deserves to have a go at rehabilitation.
change any one of those 77 victims to a single person close to you, and you'd forget all about that bullshit.

As the posters above have mentioned it's not about how you as an individual wishes to deal with specific incidents it's about how society as a whole tries to. You may not have any minimum standard on how people should be treated but society should do.

yh well I heard Breivik is a pretty cool guy once you get past the tough guy exterior

should have made the sentences per charge and run them on top of each other.