Dubstep joins DnB down a dead end alley

quark · Post by **quark** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:50 am

daddek wrote:
Quark wrote: but thats a completly different domain to dubstep, dnb and electronic music, in which the producer is often the drummer, musician, mix engineer.
which is a bit shit for the music's sake.

Music used to be a collaborative process until plug ins and broke labels. It would be good musically if there were a few dedicated mix engineers for this music, who could handle most of the technical shit, in order for artists to spend more time on creative ideas. Rather than spend all their time honing in on their snare compression or whatever.

Most of the really creative artist-producers in reggae, hip hop etc have some one else mix their shit. But in dnb & dubstep the artist does all that him/her self, and it takes up time that could be spend writing a decent tune.

But labels can't afford to rent studios any more so whatever.

what i'm trying to get at is that melody writing, drum programming, eqing and mixing are all part of production. its more of a holistic process these days, especially in something lke dubstep

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:14 am

tacospheros wrote:
Shonky wrote:
epithet wrote: Not so much the be all and end all but the first thing that springs to mind when i think of it, so for me in that respect, congo natty pretty much epitomises jungle.
You don't know much jungle do you?
dude are you serious ?

There was a LOT more to jungle than ragga jungle (much though I love that stuff), even though history has been more or less rewritten to make it appear otherwise.

epithet · Post by **epithet** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:30 am

History is written by the victors.

ory · Post by **ory** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:37 am

Quark wrote:what i'm trying to get at is that melody writing, drum programming, eqing and mixing are all part of production. its more of a holistic process these days, especially in something lke dubstep

The mental process is completely different though, I find. When I'm writing (composing) music, it's an emotional process, and I tend to zone out a bit. Tweaking stuff to sound good on the other hand is more of a logical process, not much to do with musicality at all.

A lot of people I've talked to agree with me that the biggest pitfall for an electronic musician is getting sidetracked with production/technicalities. Getting stuck on finding that perfect snare instead of actually laying down a good rhythm first. Going back and forth between keyboard and synth and changing the sound as you're trying to write a piece, etc. It's much better to focus on one thing at a time.

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:18 am

these "where are we now" threads do my head in.

epithet · Post by **epithet** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:25 am

Lets have a 'where are they now' one instead then. In honour of all the one hit wonders of the jungle, garage and early dubstep days.

joe muggs · Post by **joe muggs** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:50 am

Something else that occurred to me last night... dubstep seems to willingly welcome in outsider producers far more than jungle ever did. For dubstep's punters to completely accept Shackleton, The Bug, Boxcutter is the equivalent of, I dunno, Aphex Twin, Panacaea and Amon Tobin being invited in to jungle's top table. Which would never, ever have happened.

epithet · Post by **epithet** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:14 am

Was that the sound of a can being opened ?

surface_tension · Post by **surface_tension** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:57 am

Overcast Radio wrote:Wow, I'm loving this. thanks for the Bristol info...I know and love a lot of those producers esp. Skull Disco, Perv, Pinch. OK, so I guess I love Bristol.

So many points to cover. First off, people need to remember we're all talking about a niche style of underground dance music. Already there are many ways dubstep is removed from any general mainstream comments. Remember when "electronic" or the more watered-down consumable "electronica" was a word that was needed to describe this new music? I'm talking 1996. There is so much mis-information out there about what is what. You play a dubstep track for 10 people coming down the street, they'll call it "techno". Now that word is not needed because of all the cross-pollination of producers' tastes that, in the end, consist of two kinds of music...one's they feel and one's they don't. Think about it. Before "rock n' roll" came in, "country" was called "pop".

Since dance music culture revolves around the selector/DJ's, how connected they are, clubs, who goes to them, drugs, their discreet effects, their are less aspects of the music to fuck around with. There will always be a place for traditional pop ensembles i.e. rock bands with lead guitarists, singers, song structure, lyrics. But those conventions are harder to break b/c you are required to engage in said aspects of convention. With instrumental dance music of any kind, this is way more possible to evolve, pioneer, and create new forms. No precedent really. Tempo/feel is only thing that binds. Hip-hop and rap are probably the only styles that use loop-based, danceable music as scaffolding to hang a "song" on. There are exceptions to everything but I digress.

Dance music will always be the most progressive type of music because of those factors...the social factor, and the absence of convention re: no songwriting, no "band", no pat ensemble like drums, bass, guitar, no machine like A&R, major label capitol re: pressure to sell. For me, there could be no bigger waste of time than to start a rock band. The whole system is dead.

Drum and bass seemed to get into macho positing, extended virtuosity, and maximalist rhetoric. Almost like metal did. Could be a reflection on the times and the drugs. Society makes the art, so look at the world you're living in for answers. Dubstep seems to extend into a vertical plane of depth, unlike drum and bass which was horizontal/linear. It truly was a form of Baroque art. Dubstep's duality of feel (70 v. 140 bpm) is truly what makes it special. Some dnb does this too but dubstep breaks conventional subdivision of beat and oscillates between feels instantly. It has time to. It's not trying to beat the world into submission.

I love dnb still do. I still think Squarepusher and Photek are retardly gifted producers. Being a great producer means being progressive. So we move on. And so have/did they.

Someone said something about good producers aren't in the forums anyway? You are clearly wrong. Sorry.

I also was unaware that the discussion of music was old and tired. I guess music has run its course huh? No, how to make a wobble or "What's better? DSAS v1 or v4" is old.

Problem is these drag and drop guys are good enough. I'm an independent composer with plenty of credits and experience and there are days I phone it in, too. (Not many, maybe for network deadlines) But it trickles down. I've had on-air guys not feel my tunes and they're not musicians at all. Same end result: no performance. I've made the mistake of hiring composers on merit of their sounds to find it was all some great designer...that worked for Big Fish Audio and now everyone sounds like him! Fuck that! I've done some buy-out sound design and I won't anymore, trust that. If your sounds are so good that BFA, Spectras, whatever third party sample developer hires you to do a disc for 5K, get out there and get your tunes together!

Dubstep happens to have everything electro/sample-based that I love: hip-hop, acid-house, dub, bass, and sound design. And going back, we know Bristol is no fucking joke from the days of Massive Attack, Portishead, and Reprazent/Roni Size. It's sound-system culture across the board; all types of house (prog, acid, click), hip-hop (trip, blip, old school), and reggae (dub, dancehall, reggaeton) Styles are more alike than different. Look at the history between the UK and Jamaica for more answers. Look at how and more importantly why sound-system culture came about whether in Kingston or the Bronx. Same reasons and results.

I'm personally trying to fuse all my loves into a set that will transport. MAH said it best when describing Burial as "falling in love with music all over again". That comment moved me because it's fucking spot on, bold and ballsy, and heavy.

And if we all lived forever history would not repeat itself, but we don't, and it does. Everyone on this planet will be dead in 100 years and a new crop of monkeys will show up, miffed because their scene has died. Again. They'll make tunes that are so far ahead, they're timeless. That's my goal.

/2 snaps.
/bongos

abs · Post by **abs** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:19 am

how many more threads about dubstep going down the same road as dnb do we need here??

'Oooo i remember when dnb was a palete for ultimate diversity and experimentation, yeah man.. dum tish.. dum tish.. dum tish.. etc..'

drum n bass, as most people here go on about it, was shit! i still can't believe most people here used to listen to shite like pendulum aswell, it's allways been shit, and you probably now listen to the dubstep equivilent of all that shit, that's why you're allways moaning about it going down the same road as dnb.

d-code · Post by **d-code** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:23 am

Abs wrote:how many more threads about dubstep going down the same road as dnb do we need here??

'Oooo i remember when dnb was a palete for ultimate diversity and experimentation, yeah man.. dum tish.. dum tish.. dum tish.. etc..'

drum n bass, as most people here go on about it, was shit! i still can't believe most people here used to listen to shite like pendulum aswell, it's allways been shit, and you probably now listen to the dubstep equivilent of all that shit, that's why you're allways moaning about it going down the same road as dnb.

What are you actually talking about?

deamonds · Post by **deamonds** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:24 am

i dont agree with some of the points abs made, but i definately agree that d&b is some of the worst music ever made...

abs · Post by **abs** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:29 am

deamonds wrote:i dont agree with some of the points abs made, but i definately agree that d&b is some of the worst music ever made...

exactly, which is all that matters.

people need to stop comparing dubstep to dnb all the time, dnb is fucking terrible, it allways has been, it was never good or interesting and it's influence isn't needed anywhere, unless you're High Rankin.

geoff · Post by **geoff** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:39 am

Abs wrote: it was never good or interesting and it's influence isn't needed anywhere

Loser.

abs · Post by **abs** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:51 am

no i'm a winner, you lose.

deamonds · Post by **deamonds** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:58 am

we're all winners, d&b is a loser

SickMan D · Post by **SickMan D** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:18 am

Abs wrote:no i'm a winner, you lose.

Seriously I know your on the windup tip, but I got given a copy of this on the weekend - http://www.fabriclondon.com/label/relea ... m=fl44/com

Commix - Fabric 44 mix, new and old stuff on there absolute opposite of what you claim to hate on, if you dont dig that, you cant really claim to like good music imo.

feral witchchild · Post by **feral witchchild** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:24 am

If there's one negative thing about this scene it's just the fact that people are too egotistical not only about their own shit, but about other people's shit that they like. It cracks me the fuck up. Let the music speak for itself.

pure · Post by **pure** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:39 am

Dont look to deeply into things. Your proberlly just getting bored of dubstep. Tastes change overtime.

pure · Post by **pure** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:40 am

Dubstep joins DnB down a dead end alley

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