Page 14 of 21
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:22 am
by seckle
XOR wrote:Batfink wrote:[quote="7""]
XOR wrote:I think the real problem, is that Hyperdub should've either got clearance, or dropped the samples from the lp. If they didn't want to be found out, and let's face it, in these times of instant information, it's pretty likely, then they should've safeguarded against it. Very risky business dabbling in film samples...there's a very good reason why there aren't many over-the-counter records with such samples on...it's a labyrinthine nightmare of legalities.
Word.
Still we dont know the legal process that was behind the sampling.
then why fucking speculate? at best, nothing will happen. at worst, such pointless chat will just get Burial/Hyperdub into difficulties. Its surely not difficult to understand why its a cunty thing to do.
Er, they're making thousands of pounds, and not paying people for use of their work...there's no copyright or mention of the samples on the artwork, which usually means they're not cleared. Under-the-counter cultural guerrilla releases are great for side-stepping and sticking two fingers up to the corporates, but really, when you've sold 20,000 and counting of the debut, you're actually not such a small label anymore, and you really have to be careful. Don't have much sympathy for anyone who is willing to flout the law and make money out of other people's work, no matter how gargantuan the corporate interest.[/quote]
corporate interest? this is underground music. this isn't a conglomerate selling records. do you want to hear more of burial's music or not? we can argue the sample clearance issue until we're blue in the face, but ultimately this is an issue of supporting underground creativity.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:25 am
by metalboxproducts
djfurness wrote:Ive sort of worked out a story in this album, the start seems like its about someone falling in love, the middle seems to be about him fucking it all up, and then it seems to be about him sorting himself out all for the girl he fell in love with (Untrue seems to be about this, especially the 'Girlfriend' sample), the end I cant really connect with a story to be honest, but it does deffo seem like that to me.
Its an amazing album, gave it 5 proper listens this week, just immense.
I know a lot of people have spoke about the last minute of 'Shell Of Light', its just absolutely incredible, gave me shivers when I heard it, the tears were welling up. To me, it sounds like some sort of message, some sort of cry out that music doesnt have to be formulaic shit, that it can be heart breaking, that it can be beautiful. Im waffling on like I always do about Burial now, but seriously, how could anyone who likes music not like this?
I will not trust anyone who claims to like music in any form yet doesnt like this, ANYONE
Funny. Quite a few people think this. Most have just come out of a serious relaltionship. Make of that what you want.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:30 am
by 7"
For some people logic it seems like downloading copyrighted stuff is illegal and who does it must be banned and its a bad attitude, but sampling others artists without paying royalties (if so...) it must be protected and we must undercover that fact cos its a underground label doing underground music.
Is that a coherent thought?
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:30 am
by xor
seckle wrote:XOR wrote:Batfink wrote:[quote="7""]
XOR wrote:I think the real problem, is that Hyperdub should've either got clearance, or dropped the samples from the lp. If they didn't want to be found out, and let's face it, in these times of instant information, it's pretty likely, then they should've safeguarded against it. Very risky business dabbling in film samples...there's a very good reason why there aren't many over-the-counter records with such samples on...it's a labyrinthine nightmare of legalities.
Word.
Still we dont know the legal process that was behind the sampling.
then why fucking speculate? at best, nothing will happen. at worst, such pointless chat will just get Burial/Hyperdub into difficulties. Its surely not difficult to understand why its a cunty thing to do.
Er, they're making thousands of pounds, and not paying people for use of their work...there's no copyright or mention of the samples on the artwork, which usually means they're not cleared. Under-the-counter cultural guerrilla releases are great for side-stepping and sticking two fingers up to the corporates, but really, when you've sold 20,000 and counting of the debut, you're actually not such a small label anymore, and you really have to be careful. Don't have much sympathy for anyone who is willing to flout the law and make money out of other people's work, no matter how gargantuan the corporate interest.
corporate interest? this is underground music. this isn't a conglomerate selling records. do you want to hear more of burial's music or not? we can argue the sample clearance issue until we're blue in the face, but ultimately this is an issue of supporting underground creativity.[/quote]
You mis-read it. The 'corporate' refers to the owners of the sample source.
Ofcourse I support Burial/Hyperdub, my point is, are those samples crucial to the lp to the point where it's worth risking getting it pulled from the shelves?
It is highly unlikely any film rights owners will give permission for the samples use because it's very difficult to get permission from
all the owners - and even if they could, be sure they'll all want a share which means there'll be hardly any revenue left to make it worth the effort of saying yes in the first place. Just could be a little irresponsible is all I'm saying.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:32 am
by batfink
this is all besides the point Xor. It just seems that you're a tnuc.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:36 am
by xor
Batfink wrote:this is all besides the point Xor. It just seems that you're a tnuc.
What? Great argument.
Tell me how I am wrong exactly?
Was it worth risking having the lp pulled for a short sample? Is that what you're saying?
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:46 am
by metalboxproducts
[quote="7""]For some people logic it seems like downloading copyrighted stuff is illegal and who does it must be banned and its a bad attitude, but sampling others artists without paying royalties (if so...) it must be protected and we must undercover that fact cos its a underground label doing underground music.
Is that a coherent thought?[/quote]
There is a slight whiff of hypocrisy around here isn't there?
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:51 am
by 7"
Hypocrisy? dont think that way... maybe just some double standards criteria and surely an extremely concerning around those samples.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:56 am
by robbiej
seckle wrote:
our interests are to help out the labels in this scene and not play sherlock holmes in minutiae about every detail and every tune.
apparently the fourm line is ... only say things postive (in the interest of the labels) and dont discuss songs in depth, just say " this is great" and leave it at that, ok.
Seems silly to come to dubstepforum and want to discuss the minutiae of dubstep music doesnt it.
and then to call people cunty for discussing an album they bought, and liked!! ridiculous.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:05 am
by beatkingz
which samples are in question ? I listened to the album numerous times and cant recognize anything....but that dont mean much as im no music specialist...
anyways....i like all the tunes and think Burial did a great job!
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:07 am
by seckle
robbiej wrote:seckle wrote:
our interests are to help out the labels in this scene and not play sherlock holmes in minutiae about every detail and every tune.
apparently the fourm line is ... only say things postive (in the interest of the labels) and dont discuss songs in depth, just say " this is great" and leave it at that, ok.
Seems silly to come to dubstepforum and want to discuss the minutiae of dubstep music doesnt it.
and then to call people cunty for discussing an album they bought, and liked!! ridiculous.
apparently you chose to take my rather simple statement out of context to suit your own views.
no ones said you can't discuss details or make negative statements. i said I don't understand the reasons behind the need to discuss details.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:19 am
by stanton
Feebles wrote:Finally got my copy today. Switched off my phone, computer and lights and grabbing a box of kleenex as well as a tripple dram of my favourite malt now.
This sentence projected the most horrific image into my mind. Fuck all this talk of samples, there is no way I can listen to this album ever again. Thanks. hehehe
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:33 am
by stanton
Isn't this really just about etiquette? It's not on to out peoples samples in underground tunes in the same way that it's not on to talk about other radio stations on a pirate radio station. There are very few rules of etiquette when it comes to underground music but the ones their are are there simply to protect the scenes ability to stay underground.
I can see why people might be getting annoyed that they feel they can't chat about the samples on here, but to my mind that's just the way it is (even without Seckle's totally on point remark about the permanency of the internet). Aside from possibly hurting the Artists & Labels involved it's just quite simply not a cool thing to do and never has been so people shouldn't be surprised when others in the scene get wound up about it.
Anyway, Xothermic, unlucky 1st post but welcome to the forum mate!
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:38 am
by masstronaut
stanton wrote:Isn't this really just about etiquette? It's not on to out peoples samples in underground tunes in the same way that it's not on to talk about other radio stations on a pirate radio station. There are very few rules of etiquette when it comes to underground music but the ones their are are there simply to protect the scenes ability to stay underground.
I would compare it to not taking out an ad in the newspaper detailing your good friend's every little transgression for the edification of the local constabulary.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:43 am
by stanton
masstronaut wrote:
I would compare it to not taking out an ad in the local paper detailing your good friend's every little transgression for the edification of the local constabulary.
Yes, that works too.
Does anyone else find it quite amusing how almost every review of Untrue is basically rehashing what burial said in that Blackdown interview? Albeit with slightly more eloquence.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:58 am
by batfink
robbiej wrote:seckle wrote:
our interests are to help out the labels in this scene and not play sherlock holmes in minutiae about every detail and every tune.
apparently the fourm line is ... only say things postive (in the interest of the labels) and dont discuss songs in depth, just say " this is great" and leave it at that, ok.
Seems silly to come to dubstepforum and want to discuss the minutiae of dubstep music doesnt it.
and then to call people cunty for discussing an album they bought, and liked!! ridiculous.
shout to the missing the point completely crew....
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:58 am
by xor
Batfink wrote:robbiej wrote:seckle wrote:
our interests are to help out the labels in this scene and not play sherlock holmes in minutiae about every detail and every tune.
apparently the fourm line is ... only say things postive (in the interest of the labels) and dont discuss songs in depth, just say " this is great" and leave it at that, ok.
Seems silly to come to dubstepforum and want to discuss the minutiae of dubstep music doesnt it.
and then to call people cunty for discussing an album they bought, and liked!! ridiculous.
shout to the missing the point completely crew....
Can you not see the point that if Hyperdub didn't want people to discuss the source of the samples, they should've cleared or dropped them? And are they that crucial to the magic of the lp? I don't think so.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:06 pm
by ufo over easy
silliness
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:11 pm
by batfink
XOR wrote:Batfink wrote:robbiej wrote:seckle wrote:
our interests are to help out the labels in this scene and not play sherlock holmes in minutiae about every detail and every tune.
apparently the fourm line is ... only say things postive (in the interest of the labels) and dont discuss songs in depth, just say " this is great" and leave it at that, ok.
Seems silly to come to dubstepforum and want to discuss the minutiae of dubstep music doesnt it.
and then to call people cunty for discussing an album they bought, and liked!! ridiculous.
shout to the missing the point completely crew....
Can you not see the point that if Hyperdub didn't want people to discuss the source of the samples, they should've cleared or dropped them? And are they that crucial to the magic of the lp? I don't think so.
i'm sure its not that they dont want people discuss it, that's a silly assumption. but what does revealing the sample sources do. its not actually that interesting.
and when it could cause trouble for someone who's done so much to put a spotlight on the 'scene', and given us some great music in the process, its akin to shooting yourself in the face.
there are many more facets of the albums musicality to discuss before you have to resort to trainspotting.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:14 pm
by corpsey
So Hyperdub should have got rid of all the absolutely crucial samples on the Burial album just in case people discussed them?
