Dubstepforum.com

jaydot wrote:

DJoe wrote:immigrants do learn the language. i have never come across anyone in england that doesn't speak english and i live in london and manchester

I find this very hard to believe indeed. Are you seriously telling me you've never come across some new to the country who can't speak English?

when I was at school there was a Chinese boy who couldn't speak English, after a year of being at school with us he had learned English, so yes there has been one occasion I met someone living in England who couldn't speak English but he was learning so your point doesn't stand...

I'm not a middle class liberal and I'm calling you a racist because you are being racist. Just how are you impacted given that you haven't lost a home to an immigrant haven't lost your benefits to an immigrant and didn't have to leave university because an immigrant took your place, nor lost a job because it's now with an immigrant and there being immigrants doesn't seem to have prevented you getting access to medical services.

southstar wrote:

m8son wrote: what sort of pagan actually reports posts

3hunna

I did back when noam was still posting the grossest stuff you can think of and people were encouraging drug use to 14 year olds


Anyway, jaydot is right about people having to do all they can to learn the language.
There's countless people who can't (also in the UK). Obviously you can't expect people without any education or knowledge of the alphabet to learn it within 1 or 2 years.

jaydot wrote: We can all post facts:

*397,000 non-UK nationals were on benefits in August 2013, and that's a hell of a lot.

20.3 million families in Britain receive benefits so no that isb't a hell of a lot

jaydot wrote: 12.9% of all social housing tenants (that is recieiving new social housing) were non-UK nationals; once again that's pretty high.

that is very high but that number would go down if we build new housing which would surely be a better option than leaving the EU and stopping immigration resulting in damage to our economy.

jaydot wrote: *One in 13 people in the UK was a foreign national in 2012. That's pretty high.

why does that matter. the only reason for not wanting foreign nationals in our country is xenophobia.

jaydot wrote: "filthy racist" is always the riposte of the middle-class liberal not affected by the issues at hand when you say immigration is a bad thing

but you've said that british nationals should get a job even if a foreign national has the same right to that job. which is selection on the basis of nationality and so racism.

you've said that romanians and bulgarians are theives and beggars which is also a racist generalisation. if id have said black people are criminals you would call me racist, how is that different

I find this very hard to believe indeed. Are you seriously telling me you've never come across some new to the country who can't speak English?

only time was when i was in secondary school and the boy in question learned english enough to have a conversation in a few months. he was an assylum seeker anyway. not someon who had moved to the UK out of choice. Have you seriously spoken to someone in this country and they weren't able to talk back to you in english

scspkr99 wrote:I'm not a middle class liberal and I'm calling you a racist because you are being racist. Just how are you impacted given that you haven't lost a home to an immigrant haven't lost your benefits to an immigrant and didn't have to leave university because an immigrant took your place, nor lost a job because it's now with an immigrant and there being immigrants doesn't seem to have prevented you getting access to medical services.

I was struggling to get a factory job when I was applying because they're all looking for Eastern Europeans

I will struggle to get social housing when my Mum downsizes and I am made homeless.

And finally, if there wasn't so many benefits claimaints in the UK that are foreign the needy British people wouldn't have there's cut or stopped.

on one hand, its quite clear no one is going to convince jaydot, and jaydot isn't going to convince anyone

on the other hand, it's kind of a slow day at work so... please proceed

[insert snarky comment about how inarticulate EDL types usually look kind of inbred and UK needs some more immigration in that gene pool]

DJoe wrote:immigrants do learn the language. i have never come across anyone in england that doesn't speak english and i live in london and manchester

Go to ASDA in Hulme on any given weekday and stop to ask someone for directions, 2 out of 5 won't understand a thing you are saying. There are plenty of non-nationals that don't speak English but benefits are withheld now for those that have been here a while and they don't take courses to improve it, a mates girlfriend is Italian and speaks next to no English and she was told this while trying to apply for JSA. She now works in Primark, English is not required.

jaydot wrote: I was struggling to get a factory job when I was applying because they're all looking for Eastern Europeans

I will struggle to get social housing when my Mum downsizes and I am made homeless.

And finally, if there wasn't so many benefits claimaints in the UK that are foreign the needy British people wouldn't have there's cut or stopped.

If your mum makes you homeless you should probably consider a few things. I'm not sure I believe the factory job thing given you were at university and benefits claimants are an easy target, if you think that this conservative government would be alright with benefit levels if they were only going to brits you really are very naive.

Yeah, there's tons of immigrants all around europe who don't speak the language.
My mum teaches Dutch to newcomers. Chinese people, people from all over Africa and South America all in the same class, half of them don't know the alphabet.

I talk to people who don't speak Dutch all the time, whether they are from Portugal, Morocco or the UK

DJoe wrote:

jaydot wrote: We can all post facts:

*397,000 non-UK nationals were on benefits in August 2013, and that's a hell of a lot.

20.3 million families in Britain receive benefits so no that isb't a hell of a lot

jaydot wrote: 12.9% of all social housing tenants (that is recieiving new social housing) were non-UK nationals; once again that's pretty high.

that is very high but that number would go down if we build new housing which would surely be a better option than leaving the EU and stopping immigration resulting in damage to our economy.

jaydot wrote: *One in 13 people in the UK was a foreign national in 2012. That's pretty high.

why does that matter. the only reason for not wanting foreign nationals in our country is xenophobia.

jaydot wrote: "filthy racist" is always the riposte of the middle-class liberal not affected by the issues at hand when you say immigration is a bad thing

but you've said that british nationals should get a job even if a foreign national has the same right to that job. which is selection on the basis of nationality and so racism.

you've said that romanians and bulgarians are theives and beggars which is also a racist generalisation. if id have said black people are criminals you would call me racist, how is that different

I find this very hard to believe indeed. Are you seriously telling me you've never come across some new to the country who can't speak English?

only time was when i was in secondary school and the boy in question learned english enough to have a conversation in a few months. he was an assylum seeker anyway. not someon who had moved to the UK out of choice. Have you seriously spoken to someone in this country and they weren't able to talk back to you in english

1.) Your figure probably takes into account child benefit and working/child tax credits.

2.) Yeah we should build houses but it's only a short term measure and at a cost to the taxpaye/environment etc. Don't let them in and we won't need to build new houses.

3.) So it's fundamentally xenophobic to be against immigration for the country's greater good?

4.) The only time I come into contact with Romanians (at least I think they are) are when they steal off my Dad's market stall or beg in the city centre. I'm sure you can be told hundreds of stories about them. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... itain.html dodgy source but it typifies them.

5.) I still find it staggering that you've never came across more than one person with little or no English skills despite living in two of the biggest cities in the UK

Yeah I managed to learn no Dutch when I worked there, no German either though I was only there for 3 months but I've been in Ireland 10 years and still no Irish either. I should probably be fucked out the country.

jaydot wrote: 3.) So it's fundamentally xenophobic to be against immigration for the country's greater good?

4.) The only time I come into contact with Romanians (at least I think they are) are when they steal off my Dad's market stall or beg in the city centre. I'm sure you can be told hundreds of stories about them. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... itain.html dodgy source but it typifies them.

You don't know what's in the country's greater good given you are ignoring every point that's been made, you started this thread with the assumption we could leave the EU and trade as before and this is almost certainly incorrect. As for the second when you are dismissing your own sources as dodgy you may also want to reconsider

You're ALL missing my point. Controlled immigration is s good thing in the long run, immigration figures fluctuate and are unprecedented/don't take into account illegals and asylum seekers. If we tightened the rules up yeah we'd need businesses to stop employing so many for cheap labour etc but still.

You can't control immigration while remaining in the EU, EU freedom of movement guarantees that. You have given no thought to what happens to the UK if you decide to leave the EU and you're basing your position on no changes to trade agreements which I keep telling you is almost certainly incorrect.

jaydot wrote:4.) The only time I come into contact with Romanians (at least I think they are) are when they steal off my Dad's market stall or beg in the city centre. I'm sure you can be told hundreds of stories about them. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... itain.html dodgy source but it typifies them.

There are plenty of people around that say similar things about perfectly English "chavs". People just love looking down on others.

jaydot wrote:

Phigure wrote:

jaydot wrote:If there's a large percentage of illegal immigrants in the country and a large ammount of immigrants on benefits, both whom don't contribute to society as a whole, and then the ones who are earn minimum wage or next to minimum wage so don't offer much in terms of taxation revenue but cost the taxpayer in healthcare etc

so why are you allowed to be unemployed and on benefits, but they arent?
.

I'm on sickness benefit cos I can't work, if they're in a similar situation they're no good to the country or the economy and should be sent on the next plane home.

But surely you're no good to the country either? But I guess you contribute "culturally" whatever that means?

On the subject of immigrants putting a strain on the NHS, I've worked as a student nurse for 4 years now in various wards in Glasgow. Didn't see very many immigrants draining the NHS as I did British people, especially within A&E British people phoning ambulances for ridiculous reasons, coming into a&e with barely anything wrong with them.

basically jaydot. i agree things are pretty effed right now. i dont think its right that there are people in this country who can't get adequate housing, jobs or educations. I think that this current government is awful.

Blaming it on the EU an immigration isn't they way forward. if you vote UKIP like you say you will, they will cut the public sector further. they say they will not build more houses but re-use empty ones (houses which are empty due to lack of demand). they want to scrap all green taxes and deny manmade climate change against the advise of pretty much all climatologists and they are pro-fracking and they want to waste 30 billion pounds on defense.

how is this a good party to vote for. you may agree with some of their policies but they are clearly not competent to run this country.

I agree that labour, lib dems and the tories are all nearly as bad as eachother, but under UKIP things will be worse.

and we marginalise the immigrant population of this country which has helped make what it is today

i cant be asked anymore because your either not reading or ignoring my comments.

how can you use the environment and cost for reasons not to build houses when UKIP supports fracking, and building houses promotes growth. and i have said this twice now but you haven't developed your argument. (for example)



you are literally just repeating yourself now.
You have come across as xenophobic, brainwashed and thick. fuck thread.

I'm not normally one to use a comedian's words in debates like this, but Stewart Lee on "The UKIPs" really put it nicely.

Words to the effect of wrote:People used to make protest votes to 'nice' parties with no hope of getting elected, like the Greens or the Liberal Democrats, but now people want to protest by voting for the UKIPs, who are nasty and might even get in. It's like protesting poor hotel service by shitting in the bed and then realising you've now got to sleep in a shitted bed.

Don't shit in our bed.

jaydot wrote:
4.) The only time I come into contact with Romanians (at least I think they are) are when they steal off my Dad's market stall or beg in the city centre. I'm sure you can be told hundreds of stories about them. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... itain.html dodgy source but it typifies them.

i hope this is a trolling attempt jaydot

if not... lol m8

My girlfriend is from Romania, she worked full time through university (got a 1st then a masters) and now works as a tv & film producer... Her Romanian friends (who live in romania/france/germany/uk all are lawyers/teachers/engineers etc. They are not Romani people stealing/begging (Romani are not really Romanians BTW)

She got fed up with bullshit newspapers "typifying" her so she wrote a letter to one.. a bit of it is suitable for this:

In high school in Romania we have to study 18 subjects in a year, we cannot select a few A levels. Among these subjects I remember taking one titled simply 'Logic'. Here we learned about Aristotle's Fallacies. Richard Whately followed Aristotle's thoughts and divided the fallacies into logic and material. Logic fallacies are arguments in which the conclusion doesn't follow the premise. Interesting things I know, they stuck with me. In this category you have informal fallacies such as hasty generalization which is basically the wobbly foundation of your article. In simple words you can pin the attributes of a group onto the individual belonging to that group, but not vice versa. It's a classic error in logic and I think the simpler English word for it is Bullshit.

particle-jim wrote:Deptford High Street there is a Halal butchers and all the Asian guys in there are constantly blasting reggae really loud, if that's not a perfect example of different ethnicity mixing I don't know what is

Just walked past it again on my lunch break, there were Bruce Lee and Capleton posters on the wall and the ever present loud reggae playing, the guys behind the counter were all talking to eachother in their native language at which point two Vietnamese women walking in both talking to eachother in Vietnamese, the guy behind the counter suddenly adopts a broad cockney accent to talk to them

but yeah, immigrants don't integrate or learn the language