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probably a crap analogy but the only one i can think of atm, who gives a fuck about the rainforest as we don't live there? fuck the animals, fuck the plants, fuck the natural beauty, fuck nature

We depend on the rainforest for our survival as do countless other species, it should be protected at every cost. I'm not encouraging anyone to destroy our planet, in fact I live with a climate change warrior and help out whenever I can.

I just want people to be honest about what the fight against climate change is about.... the climate on Earth has been different in the past and so the planet was home to a different selection of species... it wasn't "better" or "worse", but it was different. In order for human life to continue, we need to try and keep the planet's climate similar to how it's been for the last few thousand years... we consider it to be beautiful because it suits us perfectly... if we fuck up, we'll go extinct... but life won't go extinct... life will adapt to meet the conditions available, just like it did in the past... the crocodiles and cockroaches will probably be here until the Sun goes out, but just as they lived alongside Dinosaurs, they'll live alongside Man's successors.... unless we can sort ourselves out and master the planet well enough to carry on for longer than the Dinos managed.

mercury is dead pretty obviously

Yeah, all unknown things about a planet than nobody has ever visited are clearly "obvious".

magma wrote:

mercury is dead pretty obviously

Yeah, all unknown things about a planet than nobody has ever visited are clearly "obvious".

your telling me from everything you know about earth and mercury that it's not patently obvious which planet is alive and which is dead?
did wonders of the solar system do you no good?

hackman wrote:

magma wrote:

mercury is dead pretty obviously

Yeah, all unknown things about a planet than nobody has ever visited are clearly "obvious".

your telling me from everything you know about earth and mercury that it's not patently obvious which planet is alive and which is dead?
did wonders of the solar system do you no good?

I agree that it's "dead" in a figurative sense, as far as geological activity goes and that no life can exist on it. I'm not sure that lumps of rock can ever truly be described as "alive" though.

The Earth has a lot on it which is "alive", but is the Earth itself? That's a rather large unknown which I certainly don't have the confidence to say is "obvious" either way.

I've never encountered a rock that was alive so far.

magma wrote:I've never encountered a rock that was alive so far.

your so pedantic lol

i'm guessing you think that when you die you DIE
and that you don't believe people have a soul.....

hackman wrote:

magma wrote:I've never encountered a rock that was alive so far.

your so pedantic lol

i'm guessing you think that when you die you DIE
and that you don't believe people have a soul.....

I've no idea what will happen when I die... nobody's ever convinced me that their theory was good enough for me to believe it so far. All bets are off... I just hope it doesn't hurt too much. Some sort of continuation of existance would be lovely (or could be terrible), but I don't believe enough to say I "know" what's going to happen... I try to keep an open mind and base my actions on things I can rely on... things I've experienced, evidence I've processed with my own brain.

Talk of souls and stuff is rather close to traditional religion to me... I love the idea of the soul, but I'm not sure I've ever encountered any actual evidence for it existing.... just because lots of people that say they exist doesn't mean they're right. Lots of people say God exists and that Jesus died for my sins... I don't believe them very much either.

close your eyes and really concentrate on not existing

it make no sense, that's proof enough there is more after death for me

and that 7 grams thing

hackman wrote:close your eyes and really concentrate on not existing

it make no sense, that's proof enough there is more after death for me

and that 7 grams thing

just cos you cant comprehend something, doesnt mean it cant be true

humans' narcissism is sickening, after centuries of killing and torturing anyone believing earth is not the center of the universe now some got to understand nothing matters without us passing [moral] judgments. defected toyotas, that's what we are

hackman wrote:close your eyes and really concentrate on not existing

it make no sense, that's proof enough there is more after death for me

and that 7 grams thing

I always thought not existing is difficult to imagine because my brain has no use if I don't exist... it has no need to comprehend such a situation, so it finds it very difficult to do. I'm not sure why it would immediately suggest that there's an afterlife though... I'm not sure that tells me anything about the afterlife whatsoever... it tells me a little bit about the nature of our intelligence.

I'll keep pulling for my species. I believe happy human society is underpinned by a pleasant environment, so I imagine our goals are similar... I want the planet saved for humans, you want to save the planet for the planet... given that the goals are the same, the argument over motivation seems a bit moot.

My motivation only differs from yours if Earth becomes uninhabitable for humans and we've got the opportunity to leave for somewhere that isn't... but that's rather far fetched and incredibly unlikely to happen in either of our lifetimes.

magma wrote:

hackman wrote:

magma wrote:I've never encountered a rock that was alive so far.

your so pedantic lol

i'm guessing you think that when you die you DIE
and that you don't believe people have a soul.....

I've no idea what will happen when I die... nobody's ever convinced me that their theory was good enough for me to believe it so far. All bets are off... I just hope it doesn't hurt too much. Some sort of continuation of existance would be lovely (or could be terrible), but I don't believe enough to say I "know" what's going to happen... I try to keep an open mind and base my actions on things I can rely on... things I've experienced, evidence I've processed with my own brain.

Talk of souls and stuff is rather close to traditional religion to me... I love the idea of the soul, but I'm not sure I've ever encountered any actual evidence for it existing.... just because lots of people that say they exist doesn't mean they're right. Lots of people say God exists and that Jesus died for my sins... I don't believe them very much either.

this is pretty much how i go too
but i never forget every time we don't know, we make up something to fill in the blanks, then science comes in and clears it up. and the idea of soul originates from times when we used more made up things than actual science. thing is i don't feel i need to know everything. a bit of mistery keeps life entertaining, we need more entertainment [not as in the fucked up entertainment industry], too much slaving and not enough fun in this world!

alien pimp wrote:

magma wrote:

hackman wrote:

magma wrote:I've never encountered a rock that was alive so far.

your so pedantic lol

i'm guessing you think that when you die you DIE
and that you don't believe people have a soul.....

I've no idea what will happen when I die... nobody's ever convinced me that their theory was good enough for me to believe it so far. All bets are off... I just hope it doesn't hurt too much. Some sort of continuation of existance would be lovely (or could be terrible), but I don't believe enough to say I "know" what's going to happen... I try to keep an open mind and base my actions on things I can rely on... things I've experienced, evidence I've processed with my own brain.

Talk of souls and stuff is rather close to traditional religion to me... I love the idea of the soul, but I'm not sure I've ever encountered any actual evidence for it existing.... just because lots of people that say they exist doesn't mean they're right. Lots of people say God exists and that Jesus died for my sins... I don't believe them very much either.

this is pretty much how i go too
but i never forget every time we don't know, we make up something to fill in the blanks, then science comes in and clears it up. and the idea of soul originates from times when we used more made up things than actual science. thing is i don't feel i need to know everything. a bit of mistery keeps life entertaining, we need more entertainment [not as in the fucked up entertainment industry], too much slaving and not enough fun in this world!

Agreed. Like Jack Daniels, life is best enjoyed responsibly.

magma wrote:Agreed. Like Jack Daniels, life is best enjoyed responsibly.

that's some quote!

ahier wrote:

kani wrote:

so this is all that humanity means to you?

and instead of feeling like you want to find any possible way to help the situation, you are gonna post a video about it on a forum to prove to people that there is no worth to humanity's existence?

i would love to hear your plan to combat cartel/gov't narco corruption in mexico.
one condition though.. you have to keep you head attached to your body.

humanity is a great concept, too bad nationalism, sectarianism, militarism, and every other schism have made it incomprehensible to most people.

what great awakening do you see occurring?

will just have to legalise all types of drugs. then the cartels can become businesses & work thru the world governments!! prohibition is what has caused this trouble!! a war on drugs means, drug users & suppliers are at war... started by the US government!!

kani wrote:

ahier wrote:

kani wrote:

so this is all that humanity means to you?

and instead of feeling like you want to find any possible way to help the situation, you are gonna post a video about it on a forum to prove to people that there is no worth to humanity's existence?

i would love to hear your plan to combat cartel/gov't narco corruption in mexico.
one condition though.. you have to keep you head attached to your body.

humanity is a great concept, too bad nationalism, sectarianism, militarism, and every other schism have made it incomprehensible to most people.

what great awakening do you see occurring?

i dont see great awakening, but progress is possible for a better future. the problem here is prohibition, so campaigning for decriminalisation and spreading awareness about the situation would help. obviously im not saying you should go in there and try and stop the warring cartels yourself, that wouldnt get anyone anywhere. so there isnt a charity that aims to help those that are victims of the problems in mexico? look into setting one up, im sure there are many other people that know how bad the problems are, and think that help should be at hand, seek them out. I know what im saying is idealistic, and all that, but i dont think that because there are problems in many parts of the world that humanity should be condemned. after all, it is western societies' fault that the drug war has arisen in mexico, so western society should do something to help.

decriminalisation wont help.. that just takes away the crime. full legalisation is the way forward. this would also help the people in afghanistan in the poppy fields. taking the money out of the dodgy realm & enabling them to build constructive businesses.

http://www.dubstepforum.com/why-work-wh ... 39067.html

with all drugs becoming a marketable concept, there would less money to be made on the black market & the product would not be as pure. so in order to make a decent revenue... cartels would have to evolve, they would be making an honest living!!

I think that it's important to the Earth to have us here.
After all the Earth produced us or lured us here...
Why?
Because we're fascinating creatures
& we produce television docos about itself
that Gaia enjoys watching.
Furthermore, we're pretentious and deludedly self-important
so we give our little rock a few laughs
and alleviate its aloness.

hackman wrote:close your eyes and really concentrate on not existing

it make no sense, that's proof enough there is more after death for me

and that 7 grams thing

There's a difference between what is epistemologically possible and "truth": what we can comprehend and what is the case are two entirely different things. The fact of the matter is our best hypotheses don't sit well with the concept of a soul, or an afterlife for that matter. It will take 15-25 minutes of reading to convince you that the soul isn't as self-evident as you assume it is. Have a look at Smith & Jones "The Philosophy of Mind" chapter 4, "Difficulties for the Dualist" it's not long and is definitely food for thought, and if you want to defend the existence of a soul these are matters you'll have to think about.