gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[macc]

Power could be described as maximum impact from minimum voltage.

HOWEVER That doesn't mean limiting the balls off everything. Limiting costs impact, after a point.

Impact is a tricky thing to define. Think of drums. Skinny little drums have punch or snap (make you blink), but no BEEF. Having everything mashed into a limiter has beef but no impact. The optimum balance of punch/transients and RMS/fullness is where impact, or power comes from. Space and clarity also play into that (no unnecessary shoite).

I think most of us would agree that we want tunes to be clean, fat as all buggery and to smack people in the face, all at once. Right? *

That's what you're looking for. You already know what it is.






* Or is this the Smooth Ballad production board?

[lowpass]

oohhhh the minimal crowd would surely disagree there

that's a really good way of looking at dynamics btw, it's helped me understand the whole thing like 10x more.

[macc]

oohhhh the minimal crowd would surely disagree there

They'd quibble over the terms, but we all want the same thing

[reverend]

I want my tracks to be like a nice hug, or being tickled next to a roaring log fire in December. None of this face smashing malarky thank you.

[legend4ry]

It's like being able to carry your girlfriend's handbag. Less secure people might take the mickey but you can happily do it cos you've got no worries about your manhood

Hahahahaha, I was having that conversation with my mate last night and he said he never does it an I was like.. "well I do its like when I make a track and try and get strong dynamics and don't limiter everything like you, its just a confidence in manhood and doing what makes me happy"


Weird

[arktrix45hz]

What I can from this thread is that if I keep my levels low and know roughly where they'll sit in the -db range, my speaker volume up, the mixing should take care of itself?

[macc]

Well, kind of, yes. Obviously you still have to adjust SOME things

For example, with experience you might find that usually a tambourine/shaker sound might peak at, say, -20dB in most of your mixes. So when you get your new, normalised tambourine sample for your new tune, you know you can drop it by 20dB before you even hit play, and it will be 'somewhere' about right. Time saved, headroom saved, fucking about saved. Magique for the workflow, short and long term.

From the technical point of view, in working a bit lower, you have enough room not to be fighting against clipping (say if you decide to put another sound into the mix, you have room for it), everything will be working in its optimum range (ie below 0dB) , and should add up to make a mix that takes good advantage of the available bit depth/dynamic range, without clipping (say, -6 to -3dB peak, thereabouts, whatever). All these little things add up

There's more as well, but those are some of the main things.

[arktrix45hz]

Taken on board what you said, now my master channel is peaking at -5db max, this is plenty of headroom to get a good sounding master? I'm sorry about asking lots of questions, but I'm still a bit unsure. Cheers again!

[macc]

Numerically that's totally fine, pretty much perfect in fact. If it ended there that would be fine, but you also know that you have plenty of room to spare if you want to add other stuff.

The big question is, does it sound absolutely proper - fat, clean, punchy, ballsy, all that good stuff - when you listen to it?

[arktrix45hz]

Numerically that's totally fine, pretty much perfect in fact. If it ended there that would be fine, but you also know that you have plenty of room to spare if you want to add other stuff.

The big question is, does it sound absolutely proper - fat, clean, punchy, ballsy, all that good stuff - when you listen to it?

Plenty of punch and the riffs sound clean and focused. The only thing that seems to be lacking is sub bass weight. I think I just need to cut all the higher frequencies and boost around 30hz right?

[macc]

Plenty of punch and the riffs sound clean and focused. The only thing that seems to be lacking is sub bass weight. I think I just need to cut all the higher frequencies and boost around 30hz right?

No need to cut anything. Why, if it sounds good? If it's lacking sub bass, just turn the bass up. You have room to do it.

[arktrix45hz]

I should've realised that, shiiit. haha

Thanks again, you're a don for these tips on here!

[mr who]

ez all


great advice on this thread, have read it from start to finish


im a bit of noob when it comes to mixing tunes and I just want some clarification:

i currently mix a tune as best i can, try to get all elements sitting in their own place in the mix by ear and select samples that compliment each other and relate to each other and avoid clipping etc. I dont really use any compression or limiting on indiviual channels.

I use a small amount of compression on the master (I read a few posts that suggested this isnt a good thing to do but im not entirely sure why)to boost the volume so i can DJ the tunes like a few others do on this thread

i was wondering if i should continue to do this or should i be using compressor/limiters on the individual channels if i need to (i use the theory 'less is more')


also.... what should i be sending to a mastering engineer? just a raw mix with no dynamics prossesors at all

sorry if i sound like a total amatuer

thanks

[lowpass]

ez all


great advice on this thread, have read it from start to finish


im a bit of noob when it comes to mixing tunes and I just want some clarification:

i currently mix a tune as best i can, try to get all elements sitting in their own place in the mix by ear and select samples that compliment each other and relate to each other and avoid clipping etc. I dont really use any compression or limiting on indiviual channels.

I use a small amount of compression on the master (I read a few posts that suggested this isnt a good thing to do but im not entirely sure why)to boost the volume so i can DJ the tunes like a few others do on this thread

i was wondering if i should continue to do this or should i be using compressor/limiters on the individual channels if i need to (i use the theory 'less is more')


also.... what should i be sending to a mastering engineer? just a raw mix with no dynamics prossesors at all

sorry if i sound like a total amatuer

thanks

Take the compressor off your master bus when you are mixing,

learn what compression can do to the individual channels and then add it if it's appropriate,

when you send your mix to a mastering engineer you usually have all of your fx on the individual channels on but the master channel should be kept clear. Also make sure to leave enough head room for them to work with as well as making sure not to cut off the start and end of the track when bouncing.

[macc]

Do whatever the bloody hell you want on individual channels, make that stuff sound how you want it to You know, make music, not all this 'prodoocin' bollocks Compression, piano, distortion, throat singing, nose flute, flangers, whatever. Anything goes.

Make your song, make it the best you possibly can musically and sonically, that's it. Then export the whole caboodle as one thing and either have a pop at mastering it yourself, limit it for level cos you already know the mix is bang on, or send it off to your ME. PIece of piss

[Okota]

Just out of interest....

Obviously all the people in this SubForum produce...
But what proportion of people send their finished tracks to a mastering engineer?
If it is getting released, is it granted, that it should be mastered professionally? Or are a lot of releases mastered by the producer themselves?

I have always mastered my own tracks, as I learn more about how to produce the track itself when I see what needs to be done to master it.

Cheers!

[Squalid]

Right...

I've just made a wobble using Sytrus (Cerebera Saw), got it sounding dirty, sorted out the LFO etc.

But is there a way I can automate the LFO wobble speed? I can do it easy on Wasp but cant seem to do it with Sytrus, is it possible?

-Nevermind, WAHEY I FOUND THE CUTOFF BUTTON.

[Mushroom Buttons]

This is not so much of a tip but this is really good for learning.

Grab these http://www.ableton.com/able10-artist-packs, 10 free live packs from Ableton artists. Inside you will find project files from these artists including ways they mix their tracks. Educational, haha!

[lowpass]

2 questions:

first - Joker has that distinct sound in his synths that sounds like loads of squares/saws playing at once. Is this just a fuck loada oscillators or some other process? need to know this for college project where I'm trying to reconstruct a synth that sounds like this (80's pad thing, so close just don't know this bit)

second- I've gotten into the habbit of eq'ing in tune with the song (boost by like 24db sweep to find a note that compliments the song and then do my cutting/boosting there. Does anybody else do this? is there any advantages/disadvantages to doing this? would it be better to boost the frequencies that compliment the song and cut the frequencies that don't? does none of this make the blind bit of difference?

just curious

peace

[macc]

The answer is:

It depends.



Generally eqing in that way is a useful way of thinking, but don't hang on it IMO. In fact there's a few pages relating to this here;

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/masterin ... ering.html

In between all the wars, guff and bollocks, of course...