Dubstep, cd-j's, and quality control?

[owengriffiths]

You're right, most dubstep Dj's playing Cd's are doing so purely because they're testing out stuff that that has just been made. They often sound shit because they haven't been properly mastered, hence the reliance on dubplates (although why people don't pay lots of money to get cd's mastered is beyond me, surely it's cheaper than getting dubs cut).

The key advantage though of CDJ's is the ability to loop sections of a track, use the master tempo feature and all the other kinds of gadgets that the expensive decks allow. Admittedly though most Dubstep DJ's seem to like mixing out of a tune quite early, and the tracks themselves are usually quite short (5 or 6 minutes), so there probably isn't much demand for CDJ's to be used in this way in the scene.

As for the Boxcutter gig, some of the tracks he played were 'old' by dubstep standards, ie. they had been in the shops for the last couple of weeks. And computers crashing. Earlier in the year he did a gig where his laptop didn't work so he was forced to not play a set. Digital & CD DJ's would be recommended to always bring bags of vinyl as a backup.

[digital]

I think people need to take these things a little less seriously tho

Yep. Just listen to the music. Like Craig...

[unlikely]

why people don't pay lots of money to get cd's mastered is beyond me, surely it's cheaper than getting dubs cut

actually, no, its not. dubs usually cost a bit more than the blank dub itself, they aren't usually "mastered" as such, its more that most engineers cant help themselves and do a quick master anyway. whereas a cd master would probably be seen as full mastering and the cost would reflect that.

[owengriffiths]

How many times can a dubplate be played? And seeming as you'll be cueing up the first beat of the record 20 times more often than you'll actually be playing the track, does that mean that different parts of the tune will wear out quicker than others?

[thinking]

You're right, most dubstep Dj's playing Cd's are doing so purely because they're testing out stuff that that has just been made.

mate you seem to make a lot of unfounded generalisations, this is one of them. I'd say the vast majority of people who play tunes off CDJ do so because either they can't afford to cut dubs, or don't play out often enough to justify the expense.

How many times can a dubplate be played? And seeming as you'll be cueing up the first beat of the record 20 times more often than you'll actually be playing the track, does that mean that different parts of the tune will wear out quicker than others?

yes obviously the intro wears out quicker, although a smart cookie will beatmatch using the last section of a tune and then cue it from the beginning. A good dub should last 30-50 plays before it really starts sounding shoddy.

Or you can go to a place like www.dubstudio.co.uk (there are a few about) which cut to PVC, although I know J from Transition amongst others haven't much good to say about the quality of the cut/sound. That said I know a lot of 'big names' (mainly in other scenes) that think they're pretty good.

[solphy]

www.dubplate.be cuts on vinyl...no mastering though.

[kidlogic]

Ok here goes...

1. Serato, like Final Scratch and Torq is a tool. Period. It does nothing to color the sound one way or the other. If a track sounds bad on Serato its going to sound bad on cd (cheap cd players sound bad, so there are some quality issues there...), just as it would if you were to cut the exact same track to vinyl. I have been using Serato for over a year now, with no computer problems and with good records no one has ever been able to tell the difference. The only problem Ive ever had with it was last week, when the track kept trying to play backwards due to the turntable being wired backwards after a repair (White = Right, Red = Left). After some headscratching a simple switch of the turntable's RCAs fixed the problem. Take a look at the list of very well respected DJ's who use Serato (www.sctatchlive.net). If sound quality was an issue you wouldnt see half those cats using it. Afrika Bambaata, Jazzy Jeff, DJ Rectangle, Sasha, Z-Trip... Z-Trip is a vinyl connoisseur, just watch the movie Scratch, I doubt he would be using it if it wasnt top notch.

2. A track that had been mastered to be cut to vinyl is mastered differently than a track that is prepared for cds due to the inherant differences in the format. For the same reasons a turntable sounds different if you plug it into the line instead of the phono on a mixer. The highs are turned up and the bass down to make the grooves smaller and therefore fit more on a side. If you are to master something for CD or MP3 is has to be mastered differently than you would for vinyl, hence the fee for vinyl mastering. A good mastering engineer would be able to do a proper job for mastering to CD or MP3s because its their job to do so. That being said it is easier to master at home for CD, since you can trust your ears more. I would still have someone else do it who hasnt heard the song 100+ times, because fresh ears are gonna be able to hear things that need fixing that you wont. If you plan on doing a MP3 release a separate mastering job should be done to account for the various things that happen when compressing to MP3.

3. I think the reason a lot of cats on this board play CDs/MP3s is simplicity's sake. First off, unless you are in the UK its not as easy as poppin into Transition to get your dubs cut. Sometimes its a mailorder process, sometimes its not possible cash-wise. Im lucky enough to be in LA where if I need it its an option, but some arent. I bet it would be crazy hard to get something pressed living in parts of Canada or South America or wherever. As long as the track is mastered well, its gonna sound good.

4. The other thing to take into consideration is the fact that most of your audience doesnt have nearly as much knowledge as you. Im not trying to say I/we are smarter than them, its an experience thing. They dont know if its an MP3 or vinyl, nor do most of them care. Dubstep is a little unique in this respect as the percentage of knowledgeable people in the audience is going to be higher, but do you think the average person at a dnb event can hear the difference or even cares? Other genres the percentage of people who know/care is even smaller. Its really just DJs that know the difference for the most part and if you are playing just to impress them then you're playing for the wrong reasons.

All that being said, there may be some watering down of quality due to lack of mastering/low bitrates, but its not cause of CDJ's, Serato or whatever tool you use, its because of the mastering/file format. .wav's sound better than 320's, and 320's sound better than 192's obviously, but a poorly mastered wav, cd or vinyl will sound worse than a properly mastered 320.


My $0.04...

[digital]

To avoid this trouble they should just buy the tunes on Vinyl and then record them to CD.

Hmmm, not as straight forward as that as the quality still won't sound as good as it does playing it straight from vinyl.

I've heard Serato sound pretty bad on occasion tho, although this may be to do with low bitrate/unmastered files being played (the same applies to cds obviously). My main issue with Serato is that it uses a laptop and an external soundcard, both of which can individually eff up and the communication between them can also go wrong (firewire and usb are still far from stable), as can the reading of the timecode off the vinyl if the needles/mixer are dodgy. To me that just seems to be too many potential avenues off wrongness.

It also depends on which operating system your using. I wouldn't ever use serato or any other software on windows to play out at a club anymore because of its liabilty to crash. Mac's, although not 100% reliable, kick the shit out of windows in terms of stability (in my experience). However, this would also depend on the general purpose of your laptop, i.e, if there are loads of other programs/applications on the computer.

I've never seen a serato set mess up due to technicals, only complications in the change over slots when you gotta set it up. But dodgy needles, jumpy records happen quite frequently.

It just depends on the dj's access to the music and how they can best produce an effective/creative/up-to-date set.

[signus]

Ordered myself a cd deck tonight so I can play out the bare amount of amazing dubs people have supplied me with off this forum etc. Best way to keep the quality of Dubstep up is by not playing shit tunes

[numaestro]

Or you can go to a place like www.dubstudio.co.uk (there are a few about) which cut to PVC, quality of the cut/sound.


Yes - good stuff. Got some nice cuts from here! Shall return again. Big up thinking for the recommendation.

[thinking]

Or you can go to a place like www.dubstudio.co.uk (there are a few about) which cut to PVC, quality of the cut/sound.


Yes - good stuff. Got some nice cuts from here! Shall return again. Big up thinking for the recommendation.

Henry Dubstudio is a propa nice geezer and works hard to get the best sound he can out of his plates.

[lucky_strike]

Or you can go to a place like www.dubstudio.co.uk (there are a few about) which cut to PVC, quality of the cut/sound.


Yes - good stuff. Got some nice cuts from here! Shall return again. Big up thinking for the recommendation.

Henry Dubstudio is a propa nice geezer and works hard to get the best sound he can out of his plates.

cheap to! will be ording from here!

[kate_]

Ok here goes...


4. The other thing to take into consideration is the fact that most of your audience doesnt have nearly as much knowledge as you. Im not trying to say I/we are smarter than them, its an experience thing. They dont know if its an MP3 or vinyl, nor do most of them care. Dubstep is a little unique in this respect as the percentage of knowledgeable people in the audience is going to be higher, but do you think the average person at a dnb event can hear the difference or even cares? Other genres the percentage of people who know/care is even smaller. Its really just DJs that know the difference for the most part and if you are playing just to impress them then you're playing for the wrong reasons.



My $0.04...

Amen.