Anarchism

[alien pimp]

i wish i had more often the chance of learning from shit like the one tr0tsky posted above...

If you need to know anything about Russian history (or politics for that matter) I've got that shit on lock-down.


School of Eastern European Studies REPRESENT.

http://www.ssees.ucl.ac.uk

saw that, i come from that area, but your knowledge is deep enough on the matter, it just misses the almost 15 years i LIVED in communism

[OldHead]

I didnt mention the Kronstadt Rebellion just because i was trying to use as recent an example as possible, and a western one at that. )the Paris uprising of 68 wasn't very long and has more to teach about rioting in modern cities than anarchist principles imo.
But Kronstadt does show a very important aspect of anarchism and where its implementation would fail is in relation to war/armies etc.. A commune can spring up, but it will be ruthlessly supressed. The USA offers the closest chance for a revolution in my eyes due to the population already being pretty militarised (WAY more so that europe) and the chance to stand up to the state is much more realistic. due to the large proliferation of guns and weaponry readily available and the chance is there for one of the 50 states to "make a break for it"

The Kronstadt rebellion was an unsuccessful uprising of Anarchist sailors, soldiers and civilians led by Stepan Petrichenko against the government of the early Russian SFSR in March 1921 during a period of left-wing uprisings against the Bolsheviks.

The rebellion originated in Kronstadt, a naval fortress on Kotlin Island in the Gulf of Finland that served as the base of the Russian Baltic Fleet and as a guardpost for the approaches to Saint Petersburg, former Petrograd, 35 miles away.

The Bolshevik government began its attack on Kronstadt on March 7.[4] Some 60,000 troops under command of Mikhail Tukhachevsky took part in the attack.[5] The Petrograd workers were under martial law and could offer little support to Kronstadt.[6] There was a hurry to gain control of the fortress before the melting of the bay as it would have made it impregnable for the land army. Many Red Army units were forced onto the ice at gunpoint and some actually joined the rebellion.[4] On March 17, the Bolshevik forces finally entered the city of Kronstadt after having suffered over 10,000 fatalities.[5] On March 19, the Bolshevik forces took full control of the city of Kronstadt after having suffered fatalities ranging from 527 to 1,412 or higher if the toll from the first assault is included. The day after the surrender of Kronstadt, the Bolsheviks celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of the Paris Commune.

Although there are no reliable figures for the rebels' battle losses, historians estimate that 1,200 to 2,168 were executed in the days following the revolt, and a like number were jailed, many in the Solovki prison camp.[5] Official Soviet figures claim approximately 1,000 rebels were killed, 2,000 wounded, between 2,300 to 6,528 captured, and 6,000 to 8,000 defected to Finland, while the Red Army lost 527 killed and 3285 wounded.[7] Later on, 1,050 to 1,272 prisoners were freed. 750 to 1,486 sentenced to a five year forced labor. More fortunate rebels managed to escape to Finland, whose large number caused the first major refugee problem for the newly-independent state.[8] Later, the refugees in Finland were pardoned through an amnesty. Among them was Petrichenko himself, who lived in Finland and worked as a spy for the Soviet GPU.[8] He was arrested by the Finnish authorities in 1941 and was expelled to the Soviet Union in 1944. Some months after his return, he was arrested on espionage charges and sentenced to ten years in prison. He died in Vladimir prison in 1947.[9]

Although Red Army units suppressed the uprising, the general dissatisfaction with the state of affairs could not have been more forcefully expressed. Lenin himself stated that Kronstadt "lit up reality like a lightning flash". Against this background of discontent, Lenin concluded that world revolution was not imminent and proceeded in the spring of 1921 to replace the War Communism with his New Economic Policy.

You lose.

[phrex]

read about anarchosyndacalism.

it worked in parts of spain untill franco-the-fascist came.

also in south america there are communities. and it seems to work!

[esfandyar]

trotsky-

did you hear last year about a group of anarchists stealing leon trotsky's ashes and baking them into cookies? they then sent the cookies to close friends to share. true story.

[alien pimp]

all systems work for some people, none for everyone
having this shit pre-determined by the date and place of birth doesn't work, same as it doesn't work to have your religion or other beliefs predetermined by your family and traditions

[2manynoobs]

100% democracy is what's right if you ask me.

[alien pimp]

democracy is just another form of wrong people making the wrong decisions for other people, and it's one of the worst because it's based on popularity, it's like the pop charts deciding what music is best

the republic was the best theoretical construct, and US started as a republic, was just corrupted on the way because the fable minds are easier to manipulate

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”

Thomas Jefferson

[magma]

Humans aren't good enough for anarchy. Lower life forms get away without systems of government - they know their role and do what is naturally expected of them.

Humans have amazing intelligence and so act out of their own interest a lot of the time. Since everyone has a slightly different morality, the best way to make a functioning human society is to strike a delicate balance between chaos and order. So far, the most effective way has been to 'aggregate' everyone's thoughts via democracy... it's not perfect, but it sure as fuck beats getting shot for saying the wrong thing or being sold as a slave by a load of fuckers that *were* organised enough to have some rules.

[alien pimp]

it's not perfect, but it sure as fuck beats getting shot for saying the wrong thing or being sold as a slave by a load of fuckers that *were* organised enough to have some rules.

yeah, like this never happens in democracy...
this is just the perfect lolcase

[tr0tsky]

trotsky-

did you hear last year about a group of anarchists stealing leon trotsky's ashes and baking them into cookies? they then sent the cookies to close friends to share. true story.

Hello firky.

[2manynoobs]

democracy is just another form of wrong people making the wrong decisions for other people, and it's one of the worst because it's based on popularity, it's like the pop charts deciding what music is best

the republic was the best theoretical construct, and US started as a republic, was just corrupted on the way because the fable minds are easier to manipulate

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”

Thomas Jefferson

yeah your are right. hadn't looked at it like that. But i don't think a republic is 'better'.

[nousd]

edit to elucidate:

here it's about memes
expired cliches
the convictions: as accurate
as this hawking representation

is that what you meant?

if you think your rephrasing helps in anyway what i said, i'm gonna tell you just left out something important, for sure i don't need your contribution, try to not take my shit and change it to fit in your small drawers

o diddums...

It was a genuine attempt to understand your slightly garbled English
I am not dissuaded from trying to fit your big head into my small drawers.

[firky]

Humans aren't good enough for anarchy. Lower life forms get away without systems of government - they know their role and do what is naturally expected of them.

Humans have amazing intelligence and so act out of their own interest a lot of the time. Since everyone has a slightly different morality, the best way to make a functioning human society is to strike a delicate balance between chaos and order. So far, the most effective way has been to 'aggregate' everyone's thoughts via democracy... it's not perfect, but it sure as fuck beats getting shot for saying the wrong thing or being sold as a slave by a load of fuckers that *were* organised enough to have some rules.

I think it's a bit of a fallacy to equate anarchy with chaos, it's nothing of the sort. Which goes back to what that American chap said earlier, Anarchism has bene polluted by the mainstream perception of it or as he put it, commercial anarchy. One of the biggest fallacies is that an anarchist society is built in illegalism, and a policing force is challenged, this isn't strictly true, it's just done by community lead initiatives rather than by an omnipotent overseer of the ruling class / oligarchy / hegemony.

There are examples of an anarchist community working well in present day mainland britain, the Whiteway Colony for example. There's also the famous Freetown Christiania in Denmark etc. Then there are of course cooperative businesses which are said to have anarchist like traits for very obvious reasons.

But ultimately, yes I don't think humans generally are capable of anarchy for most of the reasons you cited, we're too selfish. It's a shame because on paper it works. Always struck me as ironic that anarchist forums are far from anarchist in the way that they are ran.

"If democracy changed anything, they'd make it illegal."

[alien pimp]

edit to elucidate:

here it's about memes
expired cliches
the convictions: as accurate
as this hawking representation

is that what you meant?

if you think your rephrasing helps in anyway what i said, i'm gonna tell you just left out something important, for sure i don't need your contribution, try to not take my shit and change it to fit in your small drawers

o diddums...

It was a genuine attempt to understand your slightly garbled English
I am not dissuaded from trying to fit your big head into my small drawers.

as if you can properly understand any english

[fuagofire]

it's just done by community lead initiatives rather than by an omnipotent overseer of the ruling class / oligarchy / hegemony.

There are examples of an anarchist community working well in present day mainland britain, the Whiteway Colony for example. There's also the famous Freetown Christiania in Denmark etc. Then there are of course cooperative businesses which are said to have anarchist like traits for very obvious reasons.

what so in a nutshell anarchy is libertarianism with a dash of socialism?

[firky]

It depends, there's many branches of anarchism. Anarchism is really just an umbrella term for libertarian socialism as you describe, free-market anarchism, commie-anarchism blah blah. Libertarianism is largely a contemporary Americanism:

http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/ ... /name.html

Neoliberalism is chiefly rooted in Europea (Germany I think the concept first came from). It's a belief that the world economic growth and the best economic system is achieved by giving free reign to market participants, privatisation etc. It's something that IReland seems to be quite fond of.

Edit to add: GA's taking a bashing:

http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/ga/greencon.htm

Previously GA have hidden behind calls for the defence of freedom of speech to avoid dealing with their critics. But now that the 'Gandalf' trials are over, that fig-leaf has been removed. Even those like SchNEWS who had previously been prepared to go to court to defend them now describe them as "right-wing idiots". Others like Black Flag, whilst they don't share our analysis of GA as fascist, point out that GA "don't reject fascism , they just deny that it matters whether an organisation is fascist or not" ('Dancing with the Devil' BF #217, Spring 1999 p33). Our difference with BF here is secondary, and probably stems from them being less familiar with the emergence of fascist 'leaderless resistance' in the U.S.A. We share a perspective which condemns GA.

Green Anarchist No.57-58 does not just contain 'Sarin' Booth's 'justification' for the murder of workers travelling on the tube. It also contains a rerun of lies claiming that I have attempted to "explain away" alleged support for Robert Faurisson, the French holocaust denier. As I made clear in the newsletter Cultwatch, I have always rejected support for Faurisson, particularly from ultra-leftists. That the author of this piece should lie comes as no suprise. But what is more disturbing is how the other issues I raise are dismissed as "diversion into irrelevance, and repeating the pro-Faurisson arguments put back then." In fact what I did was to raise the issue of the Black Holocaust, specifically referring to Napoleon Bonaparte's plan to wipe out the entire Black population of Haiti. This population, composed of former slaves, had overthrown the slave-owners during the French Revolution. Bonaparte's scheme also included replacing them with new slaves from Africa. I point out how selective French law is by allowing for the prosecution of those who deny the Jewish holocaust of the continental izan regime, yet stops short of similarly condemning New World Negationism, the denial of the mass murder of Native Americans and Africans in the European New World colonies and slave trade.

[hugh]

I highly reccommend a book by Ursula Le Guin called "The dispossessed". The story is of another galaxy somewhere where there are two planets - one which runs anarchically and another capatalist. It follows a character from the anarchic planet living in the capatalist world and his takes on it. Really interesting stuff

[alien pimp]

I highly reccommend a book by Ursula Le Guin called "The dispossessed". The story is of another galaxy somewhere where there are two planets - one which runs anarchically and another capatalist. It follows a character from the anarchic planet living in the capatalist world and his takes on it. Really interesting stuff

this sounds good, she wrote some cool shit, thanks for getting it on my radar

[fuagofire]

I highly reccommend a book by Ursula Le Guin called "The dispossessed". The story is of another galaxy somewhere where there are two planets - one which runs anarchically and another capatalist. It follows a character from the anarchic planet living in the capatalist world and his takes on it. Really interesting stuff

Is it funny?

[Coppola]

Why do anarchists drink herbal tea?
Because proper tea is theft.