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yeah i get that

but i find it "safer" to just turn op the volume on the sub, then to do compression
might not be the best thing to do, ill try it out sometime

HALP wrote:yeah i get that

but i find it "safer" to just turn op the volume on the sub, then to do compression
might not be the best thing to do, ill try it out sometime

here an example
collab i'm doing
subtleness with compression is key
http://www.mediafire.com/?n2mik1nvy00
i kept dynamics in it but squashed main sub and orig line to be same db level

thanks for the example, i feel like i'm learning stuff and learning = good (stay in school)

I"m not sure i'm hearing (in the track) what you said about squashing them so they're at the same db's
with mixing you would be able to do the same right?

So what stands out for me is squashing the dynamics a little bit, to get an overall fuller sub.
Wich is interesting, but i always tend to do this with lfo > volume options
and just keep those low, limiting the dynamic range as well i guess

last question hopefully, did you use compression instead of the technique i described above because of choice or because of other reasons?

just curious

thanks for the insights

like i said fletcher munson and open a spectral analyzer or just watch db levels playing a pure sine at low keys
and watch how the dbs lower note by note

aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh
yes didnt think about it like that

thanks

deadly habit wrote:like i said fletcher munson and open a spectral analyzer or just watch db levels playing a pure sine at low keys
and watch how the dbs lower note by note

Okay, just loaded up sytrus w/ a sin, played descending notes, didn't see any drop in db all the way down into the inaudible bass ranges.

HALP wrote:but how is having dynamics in the sub range a bad thing?

it's not-- but it does change the phsyical experience of it. Really compressing/limiting a sub can impart a lot of tension into the sound-- you won't really hear it, but you'll feel it at 105db in a club. Conversely, leaving it open and letting it breathe may SOUND nearly the same, but will feel different.

Wouldn't compression even out the bass notes according to dBs and not compensate for Fletcher Munson? You'd still need an eq curve afterwards to get the lowest notes to sound equal to the higher ones.
I'm really tired though so maybe that's why this doesn't make sense to me

nowaysj wrote:

deadly habit wrote:like i said fletcher munson and open a spectral analyzer or just watch db levels playing a pure sine at low keys
and watch how the dbs lower note by note

Okay, just loaded up sytrus w/ a sin, played descending notes, didn't see any drop in db all the way down into the inaudible bass ranges.

You shouldn't, Deadly's talking rubbish there.

Fletcher Munson is a psychoacoustic phenomenon, not a physical one. Point being that as your note descends at exactly the same amplitude, it will sound quieter and quieter. So in order to make a lower note appear as loud, you need to turn it up more. This is what the Fletcher Munson (equal loudness) curves show.

Use headphones for trying this though as your room is likely so uneven down there that it makes it all pointless anyway.

You shouldn't be worrying about Fletcher Munson or anything like that when you're mixing. It's already taken care of because you are a human being . Make it sound right (watching for room issues of course) and don't think about it. Trying to over-intellectualise and second guessing yourself based on misunderstood things you read on the internet is a wrong'un

SunkLo wrote:Wouldn't compression even out the bass notes according to dBs and not compensate for Fletcher Munson? You'd still need an eq curve afterwards to get the lowest notes to sound equal to the higher ones.

Im not sure but we need to learn how to deal with this shit fast!!!

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macc wrote:

SunkLo wrote:Wouldn't compression even out the bass notes according to dBs and not compensate for Fletcher Munson? You'd still need an eq curve afterwards to get the lowest notes to sound equal to the higher ones.

me and you arguing on of all points bass
the irony
listen to macc over me any day
hes written some of the hardest hitting basslines around

i seriously questioned my own judgement for a minute, haha
Buttt i did learn something today, and i'm gonna try it out soon
Which is
cutting at 30 with a boost just before, see how that sounds

HALP wrote:i seriously questioned my own judgement for a minute, haha
Buttt i did learn something today, and i'm gonna try it out soon
Which is
cutting at 30 with a boost just before, see how that sounds

experiment man
best way to gain knowledge

Sharmaji wrote:

HALP wrote:but how is having dynamics in the sub range a bad thing?

it's not-- but it does change the phsyical experience of it. Really compressing/limiting a sub can impart a lot of tension into the sound-- you won't really hear it, but you'll feel it at 105db in a club. Conversely, leaving it open and letting it breathe may SOUND nearly the same, but will feel different.

Just wondering are you referring to a pure sine sub? i understand what you mean if you're referring to a sub that has harmonics or some detuning going on (like those old jungly type subs) but not really sure how this works for a sine sub. Do you mean compressing/limiting to kind of drive the sub to give some harmonics or what? Isn't the dB on that going to be constant anyway?

I just kicked the multiband compressor out of my master channel. It seriously messed up my sub. With the multiband it created some sort of distortion effect that sounded crap and made the sub loose power. Now I just have some light EQ and soft limiting on my master. Its a bit less loud but the sub sounds nice and sits well. Is there any way to get a multiband to work with subs? I might just have to use one that lets me deactivate the LOW bands. It seems to add a lot of punch to my midrange.. I would like to keep it in there. (Ohh yeah, Im using a pure sine from massiv)

Ohh and thanks again for all of this knowledge!

Snafu wrote:I just kicked the multiband compressor out of my master channel. It seriously messed up my sub. With the multiband it created some sort of distortion effect that sounded crap and made the sub loose power. Now I just have some light EQ and soft limiting on my master. Its a bit less loud but the sub sounds nice and sits well. Is there any way to get a multiband to work with subs? I might just have to use one that lets me deactivate the LOW bands. It seems to add a lot of punch to my midrange.. I would like to keep it in there. (Ohh yeah, Im using a pure sine from massiv)

Ohh and thanks again for all of this knowledge!

IMHO, IME, etc: multibands = best left to mastering engineers and people who really know what they're doing, otherwise they do more harm than good. I wouldn't put one on a sub. If you wanna compress different bits of your bass synth separately, I'd use different synths on different channels.

EDIT: you should be able to deactivate the Low band on your multiband, though, no?

Sharmaji wrote:Really compressing/limiting a sub can impart a lot of tension into the sound-- you won't really hear it, but you'll feel it at 105db in a club.

Sharmaji, I've really got no experience with making music for a club system. Wish I did. But can you talk more about this. This sub stuff seems like black magic.

When I creat my pure subs, I just use a sine from a synth, and control the dynamics in the synth. I don't have any peaks or any variation in the db.

What would compressing/limiting do to this in terms of creating tension?

And Macc - you spoke about receiving amateurish tracks for mastering that had a clinical sub just hanging off of the bottom end. Can you talk a little more about this relative to what Sharmaji is talking about?

PRETTY PLEASE! This stuff would be very very helpful for us newbs.

Hangover tips? In MY bass thread? It's more likely than you think.

OP, seriously, what's the key of the tune? I find anything below D# often has trouble replicating on a good system. E1 is just above 41hz; you're gonna need an expertly-built system along with well-placed speakers in a nicely tuned club room to replicate much below that. adding some harmonics via distortion or wave selection can help, as can layering something an octave up.

D#1 and C#1. (talking about 3osc here.)

I was thinking about layering some higher notes aswell (think coki does this on officer). Like to stick with sines, filtered other waves don't sound all that great to me when you get that low.

I distrust "sweet spots" to be honest, I think if anyone ever finds a sweet spot for bass, it's probably just the room harmonics. No note is inherently phatter than any other is it?


Shit heres the tune in question with an unmolested master channel.
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76450640b91898a0/
time to save up for monitors i think

Breakage Q&A please!