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UFO over easy wrote:

Parson wrote:beatmatching is as impressive a skill as driving a car

tell that to all the ridiculous clang-tastic DJs that still manage to get gigs week in week out

selection> skills though.

yeah I agree.. but if beatmatching is as easy as driving a car, there's no reason why we can't have both.

the other thing about DJing is that the actual beatmatching is only a small part of it. you need to actually bring the tunes in in a way that sounds natural and then think about what to do with the tunes once they're in the mix. you need ideas innit. the reason youngsta sets are so heavy isn't just that he beatmatches perfectly... he finds ways to make things hype with every mix he does. Seeing the best DJs mix is an odd experience - they seem to totally lose themselves in what they're doing.

This is pure speculation, but I reckon that with ableton etc, with the physical element removed, it's more difficult to get fully involved with what you're doing, and you can hear that in the vibe of what's being played. All the ableton sets I've heard have lacked danger. Just not very exciting. Brup.

UFO over easy wrote:All the ableton sets I've heard have lacked danger. Just not very exciting. Brup.

More danger is needed!

The thing with these programs, and with all technologiocal advancements, is that it's making it harder to tell who the good dj's are. It's getting easier and easier to be better, replacing natural timing and flare. Having listened to Ben's wicked Quantum mix countless time, i found myself asking "did he do that in Ableton" which is a bit of slur on his abilty. Natural ability is being overshadowed and the "everyman" (who's got Traktor, Ableton, Torq) is on the rise. I think the creative aspects of those programs are good, but shouldn't replace human interaction and falibilty. Or soon we will all be dancing in a room with robots playing our music. Nothing is perfect after all, and it shouldn't be.

Save the vinyl, whilst looking to the future...now that's a challenge.

Ableton is a different kettle of fish to Serato tho, serato is JUST for getting your WAV's to a record, there is no beatmatching or syncing and no other toys. Sure Tracktor you can tho...The whole point is to be able to play your WAV's or MP3's but not miss out on the feel. Keeping the mixing element there.

I only see a program like serato a good thing, if I can play stuff 2mins after I get it my shows a better show for it.

With regards to that DJ state... Dont all DJ's get that? Good or Bad? All the sets I've played out I swear down I hardly remember them unless someone talks to me (interupting me flow). I think beatmatchnig is just the start of a good DJ, getting a beat in time is the foundation to mixing just liek having legs is a core need for driving.

UFO over easy wrote:yeah I agree.. but if beatmatching is as easy as driving a car, there's no reason why we can't have both.

the other thing about DJing is that the actual beatmatching is only a small part of it. you need to actually bring the tunes in in a way that sounds natural and then think about what to do with the tunes once they're in the mix. you need ideas innit. the reason youngsta sets are so heavy isn't just that he beatmatches perfectly... he finds ways to make things hype with every mix he does. Seeing the best DJs mix is an odd experience - they seem to totally lose themselves in what they're doing.

This is pure speculation, but I reckon that with ableton etc, with the physical element removed, it's more difficult to get fully involved with what you're doing, and you can hear that in the vibe of what's being played. All the ableton sets I've heard have lacked danger. Just not very exciting. Brup.

i will agree that at first, using ableton was a bit odd for me, since i am used to turntables. i like the physicality of moving from record to record, adjusting, cutting the fader, working eqs...etc.

but once i really started to grasp what i could do with ableton, i use a controller as well as the mixer to make cuts, use the eq, work effects on the mixer AND through ableton, and since i HATE being bored, i have to be doing SOMETHING at all time. is it different? sure. but can you keep coming up with creative ways to pull the music together? absolutely. at this point, lacking physicality...well...y'all ain't seen me bouncing like a madwoman while mixing dubstep.

and a friend and i are working on an ableton live versus turntables set, where he will be mixing dubstep on the decks, while i use my controller to match beats with him, drop loops and effects and tunes, and just generally wreak havoc on the subwoofers.

sapphic wrote:but once i really started to grasp what i could do with ableton, i use a controller as well as the mixer to make cuts, use the eq, work effects on the mixer AND through ableton, and since i HATE being bored, i have to be doing SOMETHING at all time. is it different? sure. but can you keep coming up with creative ways to pull the music together? absolutely. at this point, lacking physicality...well...y'all ain't seen me bouncing like a madwoman while mixing dubstep.

Sounds cool, I need to start checking your sets.

Markle wrote:It's getting easier and easier to be better, replacing natural timing and flare. Having listened to Ben's wicked Quantum mix countless time, i found myself asking "did he do that in Ableton" which is a bit of slur on his abilty.

Someone book me

UFO over easy wrote:

sapphic wrote:but once i really started to grasp what i could do with ableton, i use a controller as well as the mixer to make cuts, use the eq, work effects on the mixer AND through ableton, and since i HATE being bored, i have to be doing SOMETHING at all time. is it different? sure. but can you keep coming up with creative ways to pull the music together? absolutely. at this point, lacking physicality...well...y'all ain't seen me bouncing like a madwoman while mixing dubstep.

Sounds cool, I need to start checking your sets.

Markle wrote:It's getting easier and easier to be better, replacing natural timing and flare. Having listened to Ben's wicked Quantum mix countless time, i found myself asking "did he do that in Ableton" which is a bit of slur on his abilty.

:D:D:D Someone book me

20% mate

Jubscarz wrote:

UFO over easy wrote:

Parson wrote:beatmatching is as impressive a skill as driving a car

tell that to all the ridiculous clang-tastic DJs that still manage to get gigs week in week out

selection> skills though.

Gotta disagree there, I hate it when Im tryin to dance and all I can hear is 2 tunes goin out of time. Also no DJ gets me goin like N Type coz his mixin skills are brilliant. Selection is very important of course but no more than skill in my opinion

flipw wrote:Vinyl I love you forever

music sounds better with you

"I was talking to a guy the other day who was trying to convince me that CDs were better than vinyl because they had no surface noise.
And I said "listen mate, life has surface noise."

-John Peel

brklss wrote:

flipw wrote:Vinyl I love you forever

music sounds better with you

"I was talking to a guy the other day who was trying to convince me that CDs were better than vinyl because they had no surface noise.
And I said "listen mate, life has surface noise."

-John Peel

Word

That peel quote just made my day

Interesting topic, i mixed for 4 years before selling my technics to buy a soundcard, have had two yrs with one deck where i used ableton, and finaly got a full setup again now.

I think though you can do alot stuff with ableton [and save on cutting dubs if yr skint], though theres something about working a mix through on vinyl. Its a lot more concentrated or medatitive process and for me alot more rewarding.

You also get analog eq's and fader curves which make a difference imo, along with the bonus that you can play any record you own in any order simply by sticking it pon deck rather than finding the folder, opening the file, waiting for it to load, warping it etc. thats just long. Also my pc sticks constantly.

I don't think its any less worthwhile doin stuff on ableton, just i don't enjoy it half as much.

joenice wrote:Here's the real question....

Are you really a "dj" if you show up to a gig with a thumb drive? No dubs? No vinyl? No cds?

that's disappointing....regardless of who it is.

I agree and been saying this for ages:
Just because you have the chunes and the equipment doesnt really make you a DJ.

Lets forget the sound issue here.

Programs like Traktor are waste. If you can use your eyes instead of your ears and hit the sync button then whats the point, anyone can do it.

And in conjuction with the beatmatching doesn't account for a lot statements, I might aswell send my little sister out to do bookings for me, just load up a usb pen with exclusve mp3s and send her out in a chef mask.

Seriously, you might aswell fuck of the dj and just a fully automated system or instead of flying to europe I could just email a tracklist and winzip file with tracks and traktor settings to the club.

Yeah, one day there'l be a button you press:
'Mix', lol

Don't agree with that shit. Vinyl sounds nicer and has more bottom end,
each to their own tho.

Anyways, how do you know myman aint just done a pre-mix and pressed PLAY? Get me?

I dunno, i sense a fifteen pager coming up so im out.

Parson wrote:i learned how to beatmatch in like an hour

if i get too intoxicated i'll have some shaky mixes for sure but i'll drive a lil shaky if i did that while too intoxicated

i do like mixing vinyl though. its tactile and fun. i got me a new macbook and wanna get torq runnin on it.

might do ableton in the meantime

Got badbaoy torq on my mac book pro, its too sick!

joenice wrote:Here's the real question....

Are you really a "dj" if you show up to a gig with a thumb drive? No dubs? No vinyl? No cds?

that's disappointing....regardless of who it is.

real talk.

Chef wrote:I might aswell send my little sister out to do bookings for me, just load up a usb pen with exclusve mp3s and send her out in a chef mask.

Chef wrote:Lets forget the sound issue here.

Programs like Traktor are waste. If you can use your eyes instead of your ears and hit the sync button then whats the point, anyone can do it.

And in conjuction with the beatmatching doesn't account for a lot statements, I might aswell send my little sister out to do bookings for me, just load up a usb pen with exclusve mp3s and send her out in a chef mask.

Seriously, you might aswell fuck of the dj and just a fully automated system or instead of flying to europe I could just email a tracklist and winzip file with tracks and traktor settings to the club.

Amen!

Its much of a muchness.. DJing records/cd vs mp3s off a laptop. Stand back a couple of meters and it all looks pretty much the same

Neither is REALLY live music so placing this reverance on a set of varying processes which ultimately has the same result to most is a moot point.

In electronic music, the studio is the instrument.. born out of technology which allowed composers to create music specifically for reproducible and broadcast media.. tape, phonograph, hdd, etc. So arguing about the performative aspects of it is like debating the use of a violin as a sequencer.