Religion...

[parson]

i can actually explain how all religions can essentially be right at the same time but it's not real easy to do on a message board. but essentially they're all fingers pointing at the moon. it's the same moon they're describing though.

[nowaysj]

To everyone that bashes religion, I think you are ignorant of the benefits that you still enjoy from a once religious society. People forget how barbarous we are at our core, and the extent to which religion has mitigated that barbarism.

Much violence has been carried out in the name of religion, no doubt. Much stupidity still persists in the name of religion, no doubt about it, and no argument here. But don't fail to apprehend the enormous benefits we all still enjoy.

[Phigure]

i can actually explain how all religions can essentially be right at the same time but it's not real easy to do on a message board. but essentially they're all fingers pointing at the moon. it's the same moon they're describing though.

replace moon with sun because they're all just paganism anyways

[the acid never lies]

i can actually explain how all religions can essentially be right at the same time but it's not real easy to do on a message board. but essentially they're all fingers pointing at the moon. it's the same moon they're describing though.

replace moon with sun because they're all just paganism anyways

What are you talking about - replace moon with sun??? this changes nothing

[Phigure]

i can actually explain how all religions can essentially be right at the same time but it's not real easy to do on a message board. but essentially they're all fingers pointing at the moon. it's the same moon they're describing though.

replace moon with sun because they're all just paganism anyways

What are you talking about - replace moon with sun??? this changes nothing

pagans worshiped the sun

Jesus is just an elaborate metaphor for the sun

[kidshuffle]

i can actually explain how all religions can essentially be right at the same time but it's not real easy to do on a message board. but essentially they're all fingers pointing at the moon. it's the same moon they're describing though.

nah this sums it up pretty nicely

[kay]

I think it's important to take a balanced view. The very same religion(s) you used in your examples above also proved to be horrendous setbacks to development and progress. At the same time, on the other side of the planet, religion played a very different, moderate role. At the end of the day, it's down to what the masses decide to do with religion since deities don't really comment much on the subject.

My overarching point was that 'religion' is a false enemy. It is simply a mistake to say that if there was no religion we would be unimpeded - plenty of "horrendous setbacks to development and progress" have occurred in secular societies along ultra rationalist lines (the USSR under Stalin, for example).

I am not sure why you juxtapose the worst face of religion with 'moderate' religion. I think it is unfortunate that we enter this discourse when, for example talking about Good Muslim vs. Bad Muslim as if they are on a scale from 'moderate' to 'extreme'. Liberation theology was demonised, as I have said, as a force of fanaticism and subversion in order to justify its suppression. An uncompromising set of values or morals is not necessarily a bad thing and can encourage cohesion and solidarity in a community.

That is not to say that religion should be immune to criticism, but I think it is important when dealing with issues to attack the behaviour rather than religion as a whole, especially since religious and cultural practices are often impossible to distinguish.

Yeah, religion is indeed the false enemy. The real enemy is humanity.

I juxtaposed the two because I was comparing the religions that emerged from the MIddle Eastern region to Buddhism, not the extremes you find within a given religion. They are structured quite differently and seem to attract/make/breed slightly different mentalities. I've never met a proselytising Buddhist (I'm sure they exist, I've just never had one try to preach to me on my doorstep). On the other hand, you could say that the more "aggressive" trinity of Middle Eastern religions are also weaved into the regions of the world that made some of the most important advances in civilisation that have brought us to the present day. Whereas the Buddhists pretty much just got on with life and kept to themselves for the most part, made a few discoveries. So are the differences due to different cultural backgrounds, different religious backgrounds, or both?

Don't mind me, I'm just rambling.

I also think Parson is correct. Stripped to the bone, pretty much all modern religions point at the same thing. It's when you add in the thousands of years of human meddling and confuzzlement that the message is completely hidden or forgotten.

[kwami]

Tom sticks two up at the Pope

pfffttt....scientology


WANKERS

[test_recordings]

i can actually explain how all religions can essentially be right at the same time but it's not real easy to do on a message board. but essentially they're all fingers pointing at the moon. it's the same moon they're describing though.

replace moon with sun because they're all just paganism anyways

What are you talking about - replace moon with sun??? this changes nothing

pagans worshiped the sun

Jesus is just an elaborate metaphor for the sun

Pagans can also worship the moon... Paganism can be 'pantheistic' which means that they believe in the divinity of everything. The definition's quite loose though due to it having several different uses in history, wikipedia actually has a decent response to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism#Pagan

[death_cafe]

Thanks, really interesting and informative debate. I particularly like The Acid Never Lies contributions.

For me it's much more useful to look at whether religion works, rather than whether it's true.

Personally I'm a Buddhist. I really like what the Dalai Lama says in this territory, such as if any Buddhist point was disproved by science then the scientific view should prevail. I also heard him say in Glasgow: 'One person one truth, many people many truths'.

[cityzen]

i can actually explain how all religions can essentially be right at the same time but it's not real easy to do on a message board. but essentially they're all fingers pointing at the moon.

But we must be careful not to mistake the finger for the moon.

[the acid never lies]

So are the differences due to different cultural backgrounds, different religious backgrounds, or both?

I think this is the place to start. It is important to put it into a social-political perspective as well or you run the danger of treating both like something that's static. It is unfortunate the media doesn't deem its audience smart enough to consider these sorts of questions but instead resorts to caricature - we are given different conclusions but there's no real debate (not to mention vested interests). I suppose that's why partisanship and sectarianism can be so brainless, we are not exactly encouraged to think.

I know very little about Buddhism but I would be interested to know what role it played within the wider context of Imperial China, whether it was something that was generalised by a history of colonisiation, if it grew in isolation, in insular communities etc. - I find it all very interesting but don't know enough to make anything but wild speculations.

[parson]

i can actually explain how all religions can essentially be right at the same time but it's not real easy to do on a message board. but essentially they're all fingers pointing at the moon.

But we must be careful not to mistake the finger for the moon.

the finger is not the moon! the finger is NOT the moon!

the map is not the territory!

[alien pimp]

How does one opt out nowadays?

so anyone has a an answer to this? i'm fascinated how complex the dilemma is

[the acid never lies]

How does one opt out nowadays?

so anyone has a an answer to this? i'm fascinated how complex the dilemma is

Not sure I understand the question