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Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:08 am
by nousd
Rememberance Day is supposed to be about remembering those who suffered in war,
whether volunteers, conscripts or bystanders,
whatever side, whatever their currently-agreed guilt,
however complicit, however innocent
hopefully to create a pause
to reflect upon the losses of war
and strengthen the motivation for peace
It's not about demonizing the dead of other nations, let alone your own.
You have all the rest of the year to make that overtly political point.
Of course, cultural insensitivity runs both ways and individuals will always give priority to their own grievances.
At least it's better than bombing a church or a train.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:16 am
by 64hz
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:23 pm
by slothrop
seckle wrote:the reaction these protesters wanted, was served up exactly by the daily mail. they wanted media coverage, and the daily mail ate the bait gladly. ridiculous article, meant to sell newspapers and carry forth more xenophobia..
Totally agree. Absolute bullshit, this sort of stuff. Why is it always acceptable to talk about "muslims" when you mean "small group of extremist nutters" - it'd be like heading every article about hardcore IRA splinter groups "new Catholic atrocity planned", as if my grandma had somehow been in on it as well.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:40 pm
by fretn
Well isn't it the fault of the muslim protestors that people become more xenophobic? Although I hate the Daily Mail, they didn't protest & burn poppys, the protestors did.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:45 pm
by clifford_-
does anyone think the reaction would be the same if it was the other way round?
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:45 pm
by symmetricalsounds
fretn wrote:Well isn't it the fault of the muslim protestors that people become more xenophobic? Although I hate the Daily Mail, they didn't protest & burn poppys, the protestors did.
i saw practically the same thing said by someone who used to be on my fb list. if you can't differentiate between a few people being retarded within a group and the group itself you're the retard.
an example i've used time and again, when the brixton nail bomber hit you didn't have every white person under suspicion, white people stop+searches didn't go up, people didn't start saying it was ok to call all white people crackers cos one nutty dude had set off a bomb.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:47 pm
by clifford_-
symmetricalsounds wrote: people didn't start saying it was ok to call all white people crackers cos one nutty dude had set off a bomb.
wait? thats not ok? i hear it on tv quite alot...
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:52 pm
by fretn
symmetricalsounds wrote:fretn wrote:Well isn't it the fault of the muslim protestors that people become more xenophobic? Although I hate the Daily Mail, they didn't protest & burn poppys, the protestors did.
i saw practically the same thing said by someone who used to be on my fb list. if you can't differentiate between a few people being retarded within a group and the group itself you're the retard.
an example i've used time and again, when the brixton nail bomber hit you didn't have every white person under suspicion, white people stop+searches didn't go up, people didn't start saying it was ok to call all white people crackers cos one nutty dude had set off a bomb.
No, it's just simple matter as a foreigner who is here as a guest you pay honour to our dead, at least pay respect. I advise you to come to the Westhoek (Passchendaele, Ypres, Diksmuide, it's not that far from where I live) and see the graves for yourself, biggest waste of human lives ever. And that's the thing that bugs me, we don't laught with their dead? Also extremist people in our Western culture are marginalised, this is not the case in the muslim society. Not being racist or xenophobic, just good observation of their society & history.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:02 pm
by symmetricalsounds
how do you know they are foreigners?
i'd say it's quite likely that most of those people in the protests were born here. also something people might be missing is that there are probably people who protested that have dead family that fought in the war on the side of the allied army in WW2.
also you say muslim society like every single one is the same, iran used to have a very secular society til the u.s installed the shah.
clifford_- wrote:symmetricalsounds wrote: people didn't start saying it was ok to call all white people crackers cos one nutty dude had set off a bomb.
wait? thats not ok? i hear it on tv quite alot...
alot? can't say i hear it often.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:09 pm
by Mortal
clifford_- wrote:does anyone think the reaction would be the same if it was the other way round?
not at all, and thats the problem
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:11 pm
by clifford_-
i hear it more often than alot of other racial slurs...
im not offended by it, im sure most white people arent.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:11 pm
by clifford_-
Mortal wrote:clifford_- wrote:does anyone think the reaction would be the same if it was the other way round?
not at all, and thats the problem
i think your probably right...
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:13 pm
by fretn
symmetricalsounds wrote:how do you know they are foreigners?
i'd say it's quite likely that most of those people in the protests were born here. also something people might be missing is that there are probably people who protested that have dead family that fought in the war on the side of the allied army in WW2.
They are born here, but after
3 or 4 generations they still wear local clothing, they still get buried in their country of origin, they still marry girls/boys from their country of origin... That is not adaptation, that is just a culture living next to another culture that doesn't fit, they have their muslim society inside our society. And that is what bugs me, as example I don't want to eat no halal meat as i'm not obliged to it. My choice is being restricted because of foreign elements at my local domino's pizza. So a minority commands a majority. Again, I am not a xenophobic asshole, i'm just right orientated.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:20 pm
by symmetricalsounds
fretn wrote:symmetricalsounds wrote:how do you know they are foreigners?
i'd say it's quite likely that most of those people in the protests were born here. also something people might be missing is that there are probably people who protested that have dead family that fought in the war on the side of the allied army in WW2.
They are born here, but after
3 or 4 generations they still wear local clothing, they still get buried in their country of origin, they still marry girls/boys from their country of origin... That is not adaptation, that is just a culture living next to another culture that doesn't fit, they have their muslim society inside our society
why do you care what clothes they wear? they might like them. how many people do you know that want to marry them? it certainly works both ways, also you are confusing race and religion. if they only wish to marry people of their own faith? just like many christians/jews etc...
fretn wrote:
Again, I am not a xenophobic asshole, i'm just right orientated.
you certainly sound like a xenophobe, even if you're not, however you are very short-sighted and close-minded.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:30 pm
by fretn
symmetricalsounds wrote:fretn wrote:symmetricalsounds wrote:how do you know they are foreigners?
i'd say it's quite likely that most of those people in the protests were born here. also something people might be missing is that there are probably people who protested that have dead family that fought in the war on the side of the allied army in WW2.
They are born here, but after
3 or 4 generations they still wear local clothing, they still get buried in their country of origin, they still marry girls/boys from their country of origin... That is not adaptation, that is just a culture living next to another culture that doesn't fit, they have their muslim society inside our society
why do you care what clothes they wear? they might like them. how many people do you know that want to marry them? it certainly works both ways, also you are confusing race and religion. if they only wish to marry people of their own faith? just like many christians/jews etc...
fretn wrote:
Again, I am not a xenophobic asshole, i'm just right orientated.
you certainly sound like a xenophobe, even if you're not, however you are very short-sighted and close-minded.
Totally out of the question, There are enough people with the Islamic faith in the UK & in Western Europe, Why do they need to find a bride in their homecountry/country of origin, it's not that there are not enough partners in the West? That limits the integration for a great part, traditional people who do not speak the language of their new country, it's very hard for them to integrate that way (finding a job?). As of the clothing, how do you want to make social promotion if you wear these gowns, I mean you wouldn't come and apply for a job in these clothes or trainers, right?
As of being a xenophobic, the best friend of my brother is a muslim: we have our differences but he's a nice guy.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:32 pm
by clifford_-
symmetricalsounds wrote:
you certainly sound like a xenophobe, even if you're not, however you are very short-sighted and close-minded.
You cant just say that becuase he has a different view to you. those words get thrown about way too much these days.
Just becayse hes unhappy about something doesnt mean to say hes a xenophobe.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:37 pm
by symmetricalsounds
fretn wrote: As of the clothing, how do you want to make social promotion if you wear these gowns, I mean you wouldn't come and apply for a job in these clothes or trainers, right?
well only because people like you consider those clothes not-smart. i can't see the issue at all, in certain jobs they wouldn't be practical but still no need to look down on people simply because they are comfortable in different clothes.
clifford_- wrote:symmetricalsounds wrote:
you certainly sound like a xenophobe, even if you're not, however you are very short-sighted and close-minded.
You cant just say that becuase he has a different view to you. those words get thrown about way too much these days.
Just becayse hes unhappy about something doesnt mean to say hes a xenophobe.
maybe if you read what i said you will see that i called him short-sighted and close-minded but i DIDN'T call him a xenophobe, i just said he sounded like one.
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:43 pm
by Mortal
symmetricalsounds wrote:
maybe if you read what i said you will see that i called him short-sighted and close-minded but i DIDN'T call him a xenophobe, i just said he sounded like one.
thats like saying "i didnt run over the dog, i just pushed it infront of that car"
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:46 pm
by clifford_-
Mortal wrote:symmetricalsounds wrote:
maybe if you read what i said you will see that i called him short-sighted and close-minded but i DIDN'T call him a xenophobe, i just said he sounded like one.
thats like saying "i didnt run over the dog, i just pushed it infront of that car"
Re: Muslims burning poppys on remembrance day
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:47 pm
by fretn
symmetricalsounds wrote:fretn wrote: As of the clothing, how do you want to make social promotion if you wear these gowns, I mean you wouldn't come and apply for a job in these clothes or trainers, right?
well only because people like you consider those clothes not-smart. i can't see the issue at all, in certain jobs they wouldn't be practical but still no need to look down on people simply because they are comfortable in different clothes.
God, stop protecting them like they are small children... they have the possibilities in our society to promote on the social ladder a lot more easier than in their country of heritage but it requires some form of adaptation, if they want to stay poor & live in shitty housing, they can be my guest.
