Dubstep in a lull ?

[blackdown]

Also.. if you do not believe in fusion, why do you get so excited by the thought of grime deejays playing dubstep? This was surely the result of dubstep artists and promoters bringing grime into their sets, productions and community. If purism had prevailed, grime would have been exluded. The emphasis of purism is exclusion.

the devil's in the details here. i said i'm not excited by fusion in DJing. fusion in production is completely essential, hence why we get indian, dub, breaks, techno, dancehall and grime flavours in dubstep.

roll deep playing dubstep is not a great example because skream deliberately set out to make a grime tune, and 'request line' was the result. so it's not really fusion in djing, it's roll deep acknowledging fusion in production.

[blackdown]

i was never at the blue note, during it's peak ... you'd have rasta's grooving next to raver pill head's.

i was there and it was amazing, even in cultural terms alone. that's why i like forward, culturally speaking too, because you get the rinse fm management next to some Rephlex fan, hoxton type next to some rudegyal there for Target. that kind of cultural fusion is rare and essential - that's why i mentioned it on the Forward 4th birthday flyer.

as a side note, el-b was there at blue note too (not that i knew him). his dual love of garage and the darkness he heard at metalheadz was to provide the idea for a new kind of fusion in his productions... the result is dubstep.

[vxd1]

But there'd be no room for diversity in production if all the deejays took a purist route. To me there is a clear difference between "purism" and "focus", both in the end result and mindset. When a deejay displays focus, they show they have a unique, clearly formed vision. This necessarily means promoting certain sounds, and filtering out others, but it's a positive process, it's emphasis is on invention as opposed to exclusion.

Purism is entirely exclusionary. It promotes an idea by excluding off all varients. A purist will even take steps to depromote those varients, that's the mentality. Also, the excitement and invention created by the initial creation of the pure form is likely to be followed by a stagnation and restriction as the followers march in file behind the purists, increasingly unable take their own route.

What's revealing is that when you talk to those artists who are heralded as the most pure.. they dont even believe in that purism, they are just focusing on their own sound..

[reza]

there has been a trend over the last few years to book DJs to play their own productions - this supports the 'focus' rather than 'purism' idea, cos those producers are just playing their own sound, they're not selectors excluding other sounds...

and yes, blue note was eclectic but so was the label - chilled and harder stuff all got a look in.

As for DnB line-ups being too samey, I think there's less of that than commonly imagined. check out hospitality, london zu, tempo tantrum line-ups.

re fusion in djing v fusion in production, it is worth bearing in mind the number of radio shows over the years - early kiss fm stuff, john peel, j da flex, whoever - that did their bit by offering a range of sounds.

[bunzer0]

At the end of the day the same people that buy a DMZ or a Tempa record will buy a Storming/Destructive/Hotflush record.

As a belgian dj and dubstep fanatic i recognize myself in this case !

[seckle]

But there'd be no room for diversity in production if all the deejays took a purist route. To me there is a clear difference between "purism" and "focus", both in the end result and mindset. When a deejay displays focus, they show they have a unique, clearly formed vision. This necessarily means promoting certain sounds, and filtering out others, but it's a positive process, it's emphasis is on invention as opposed to exclusion.

i wish this were the case with all dj's though. i think many of them overlook the "focus" and make sure to have nothing but the newest/latest/most exclusive.

[dq]

Can you really call playing breakstep, dubstep, and grime in the same set "diversity?" If that's what passes for diversity it shows how narrowly focused the rules are.

The funny thing is I know most people here listen to all different forms of music (see previous thread). So why when it comes time to rock a party is the only tool at our disposal this particular close family of microgenre?

I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit. But it does strike me that when I go to hear a great house DJ, they'll mix in all kinds of random fantastic shit and it'll all come across as somehow still being "House music." Like you'll hear Fela Kuti, hard minimal house, disco, funk, quirky 80's tunes all mixed together to great effect.

[paulie]

Can you really call playing breakstep, dubstep, and grime in the same set "diversity?" If that's what passes for diversity it shows how narrowly focused the rules are.

The funny thing is I know most people here listen to all different forms of music (see previous thread). So why when it comes time to rock a party is the only tool at our disposal this particular close family of microgenre?

I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit. But it does strike me that when I go to hear a great house DJ, they'll mix in all kinds of random fantastic shit and it'll all come across as somehow still being "House music." Like you'll hear Fela Kuti, hard minimal house, disco, funk, quirky 80's tunes all mixed together to great effect.

100% agree. The London music scene has always been like this though - incrediby anal. That's why the best music usually comes from the north. This hasn't happened at all with electronic music though, strangely. Most of the stuff from up north is rubbish (to wit - bassline house?!).

[casino addict]

Nothing much to add to this thread as vxd1 has expressed much of what I was thinking a hell of a lot more eloquently than I ever could. I spent about three years taking a purist approach to djingÂ… It started to make me loose interest in music and made me want to give up playing records. IÂ’ll certainly never go back there.

Having djs of differing styles dropping this shit in among their other selections is necessary for dubstepÂ’s propagation and therefore its development, in my opinion.

[[b]racket]

This hasn't happened at all with electronic music though, strangely. Most of the stuff from up north is rubbish (to wit - bassline house?!).

'Scouse House' also springs to mind....

[blackdown]

But there'd be no room for diversity in production if all the deejays took a purist route. To me there is a clear difference between "purism" and "focus", both in the end result and mindset. When a deejay displays focus, they show they have a unique, clearly formed vision. This necessarily means promoting certain sounds, and filtering out others, but it's a positive process, it's emphasis is on invention as opposed to exclusion.

Purism is entirely exclusionary. It promotes an idea by excluding off all varients. A purist will even take steps to depromote those varients, that's the mentality. Also, the excitement and invention created by the initial creation of the pure form is likely to be followed by a stagnation and restriction as the followers march in file behind the purists, increasingly unable take their own route.

i really dont share your clarity between these terms 'purism' and 'focus'. one is a form of 'promotion' and 'filtering out', the other is 'promoting' and 'excluding.' surely they're the same?

anyway i'm referring to dubstep djs like hatcha and youngsta who have innovated through their sets. if you want to call that 'focus' - cool - i'll go with that.

[blackdown]

Can you really call playing breakstep, dubstep, and grime in the same set "diversity?" If that's what passes for diversity it shows how narrowly focused the rules are.

The funny thing is I know most people here listen to all different forms of music (see previous thread). So why when it comes time to rock a party is the only tool at our disposal this particular close family of microgenre?

I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit. But it does strike me that when I go to hear a great house DJ, they'll mix in all kinds of random fantastic shit and it'll all come across as somehow still being "House music." Like you'll hear Fela Kuti, hard minimal house, disco, funk, quirky 80's tunes all mixed together to great effect.

dq we're specifically, by design, talking about a very narrow spectrum, this is the dubstep forum. if you want to have a diversity competition lets mix Merzbow into Crazy Frog... but it wont have anything to do with dubstep.

[elemental]

In terms of DJing, some of my most seminal moments mixing two records together were when they are of very different styles but happen to fit - like some deep dark techno by the Advent into a Vex'd track, or an old hardcore tune into new minimal dubstep ...

[kymatik]

But there'd be no room for diversity in production if all the deejays took a purist route. To me there is a clear difference between "purism" and "focus", both in the end result and mindset. When a deejay displays focus, they show they have a unique, clearly formed vision. This necessarily means promoting certain sounds, and filtering out others, but it's a positive process, it's emphasis is on invention as opposed to exclusion.

i wish this were the case with all dj's though. i think many of them overlook the "focus" and make sure to have nothing but the newest/latest/most exclusive.

True. But then thats a discussion of good dj against bad.

[descent]

I spent about three years taking a purist approach to djingÂ… It started to make me loose interest in music and made me want to give up playing records. IÂ’ll certainly never go back there.

agreed.

ok my 2 cents : I don't think adding diversity into a Dj set is stopping the scene from growing at all. If anything it increases the size of your audience.

Messing around last night in preperation for my gig wednesday night (with a live band that plays dnb/breaks/dubstep I might add) I happen on a bit of the Vex'd album circa 2005, gettin down I start rooting through my old records and stumble upon the µ-Ziq - Tango n Vectif album circa 1993 ... ooh let's play I say, and play I do and lo and behold I'm gonna freak someone tomorrow night when I drop that shit. hmmm

those that recognise the µ-Ziq will ask me what the Vex'd track was and visa versa. yep, that's slowing the scene alright.

additionaly. as a DJ who buys his records, ie is not in the dub circle, how am I supposed to play a completely "pure" set like Hatcha or Youngsta when 80% of their trax are unreleased ?

Also, try playing 4 hours of dubstep or any straight genre to a crowd around here and your night will surely fail.

[blackdown]

i think people need to look at the differring intentions of different DJs sets.

some people wanna play old Fela and funk to entertain a crowd.

but other DJs want to move an entire current genre forward by expressing themselves through their selection and presentation of brand new music.

which will have more legacy and impact in the long run?

[paulie]

This is a non-discussion. The bottom line is that the "dubstep" scene is incredibly factionalised, and that is in no way a good thing.

[descent]

i think people need to look at the differring intentions of different DJs sets.

some people wanna play old Fela and funk to entertain a crowd.

but other DJs want to move an entire current genre forward by expressing themselves through their selection and presentation of brand new music.

which will have more legacy and impact in the long run?

hmmm, did John Peel RIP stick to one genre, or did he push all music forward ... what about his legacy?

[blackdown]

hmmm, did John Peel RIP stick to one genre, or did he push all music forward ... what about his legacy?

john peel was a genius at breaking new music, he just did it on about different 300 fronts.

[dq]

i think people need to look at the differring intentions of different DJs sets.

some people wanna play old Fela and funk to entertain a crowd.

but other DJs want to move an entire current genre forward by expressing themselves through their selection and presentation of brand new music.

which will have more legacy and impact in the long run?

The legacy of tech-step, as militantly forward-thinking as it may have been, is that it alienated party goers by divorcing music from FUN. If the price of progression is taking the party out of the music, then what good is it?

I love dubstep. Even think it's a hella good time on the dancefloor. I also take it very seriously. But I've seen too many times the peril of musical purism.