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No need for bad language.

Sometimes there is, It's way worse to condescend than swear, actually I don't have a problem with words being offensive, its how you use them or your intention that matters.

So, your argument is again about concept of scale - it's ok to rob off larger organisations as they can afford it. But not smaller independants, even though they may well have identical business models/marketing technqiues.

First off, its obviously difficult to decide what is major and what is indie, the lines are smeared.
Actually in a major film production numerous tasks will be licensed to small independent crews that depend (l :dunce:l ) on those jobs.
Hollywood is a market in itself though - numerous companies that work on the same plane.
Its not like there is the same magic level you could get on in music. Don't get me wrong you could streamline your integrity down too as small an entity of pink sugary gash in music as you would in hollywood.

I'm suggesting that you shouldn't at all condone a business that by a very large margin get their revenue by putting up a 'fake' front to lure you in -
like just as an example: the idea that a writer had any valuable authority on what eventually became the script in a hollywood film.
Same would go for a shitty label that lived off cool shirts, not a good label now is it? It's sort of your duty to go against that..
There are reasons to go indenpendent even if you could get that major distribution and its not just integrity. It could be that you wanted to control every step in that production. So Im saying for the sake of the artistic side of things, go against that in every way possible. Especially because the cooperate nature of things like that brings along censorship and (lol) 'mindcontrol' and awful, awful blandness.

This point is a little unclear - are you saying it's ok to rob from people providing it's not their primary source of income?

Robbing is your word mate.
Im saying its not viable for those people (like myself) to try to live off it - as the situation is now, but that I don't fret that.
I dont necessairly believe a society could work and should work with me just getting paid for making and releasing beats at home and not playing out.
That doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to sell their music, just that I expect more from people, than for them to be living from just music alone.

Isn't it selfish of the musician to not share his music. Most musicians, I thought want their music to be listened too. Why do we have to pay to do something they want us to do. Shouldn't they be paying us to listen?

Il download anything, but i do buy good albums, from all size labels. I don't think its going to be like this forever so get it while you can. Id never profit out of another artists music though, that would make me feel quite bad.

Good point about games, the second hand market is thriving, games are re-sold so many times now, does any of that money go to the devs?

Being a fan of obscure exploitation movies and the like I'd say I'd only ever download something if there is really no other way of seeing it.

nicenice wrote:Isn't it selfish of the musician to not share his music. Most musicians, I thought want their music to be listened too. Why do we have to pay to do something they want us to do. Shouldn't they be paying us to listen?

Nah, you listen because you want to, surely? So you're paying for their efforts and by supporting and enjoying their music, they can make more.

say_whut wrote:

nicenice wrote:Isn't it selfish of the musician to not share his music. Most musicians, I thought want their music to be listened too. Why do we have to pay to do something they want us to do. Shouldn't they be paying us to listen?

Nah, you listen because you want to, surely? So you're paying for their efforts and by supporting and enjoying their music, they can make more.

exactly, its a form of reciprocation for the experience theyve given you.

Small independent artists/labels have a much better chance of surviving in the market now with the advent of piracy. Buy tunes you know you will love and listen to more than a few times. Pirate things you aren't sure about or you don't think is worth the money.

The large film industry has survived much better than those giant music holding companies. Generally they still need those large studios for distribution and actual production. They still make those outrageous films people actually pay to see. Go to pirate bay at any time and look at the top 100 downloads. The top is always listed with movies and TV shows. I personally stopped torrenting movies because they take too much space and I prefer watching them on a large screen with friends/family. Services like netflix are quite wonderful.

Piracy =/= theft, in any way shape or form.

Tbh I pay for music because I feel close to the scene and I really feel like supporting the artists by doing so, that's even more real within the bass music scene. When I pirate a movie I'm just like "boh 5 quids mean nothing to hollywood". I do pay when I go & see independents productions that may be interesting, but fuck giving my money for some overrated stupid actor coke addict or whatever. I'd rather buy a DMZ vinyl and allow Mala to create more amazing music.

Yeah, films take forever to download.

Paying ludicrous amounts when I occasionally think a film is worth going t't cinema for, it makes me feel better about watching films online.

Absolutely no justification for either.

But it's an interesting question you pose...considering i am strongly against downloading music, but am happy to download film.

In my head it's due to repeat play factor I suppose. I'll watch a film once. If it's shit, I won't watch it again/. If it's OK, i probably won't watch it again. If it's amazing, I'll wanna show people, so will most likely buy it.

Whereas with music, I won't get rid of anything...so wouldn't 'steal' it.

herbalicious wrote:Absolutely no justification for either.
In my head it's due to repeat play factor I suppose. I'll watch a film once. If it's shit, I won't watch it again/. If it's OK, i probably won't watch it again. If it's amazing, I'll wanna show people, so will most likely buy it.

I was just about to write that! With films, I will rarely watch things more than once. If I like it, I will buy it on dvd so I can have a proper copy. With music, I will obviously listen to things more than once if I like it, so immediately there is a difference. With music you are using the product over and over again, so in that way, it seems more obscene to obtain it illegally.

They are both horrible horrible things.

Death penalty worthy IMO.

'I would/do download music, but wouldn't download films illegally'

Really? Who picked that?

Could just be someone who doesn't like movies all that much.

im a bit older than some people here and adversely have to me quite normal patterns of behaviour...i dont tend to steal films or music..i just buy something if i want it and dont think of downloading it

i download all the films i watch. the only time i download music is if i want an album from a rich c*nt, they dont need the money and i would hate to give any money to those big record labels.

wizeguy wrote:i download all the films i watch. the only time i download music is if i want an album from a rich c*nt, they dont need the money and i would hate to give any money to those big record labels.

but why do u want music from these people?

it's rare... i think i downloaded an old chilli peppers album and Nas' illmatic in the last year, but yea generally rich people are shit at making music so they dont have to worry about me robbing them. sometimes my dad asks me to get him something... not sure if he knows its stealing haha