so what fuckin tnuc is america going to elect now

[wormcode]

As far as education, I agree it isnt everything. But if you're going to dismantle a financial institution and reconstruct a countries financial foundation, gyanaecology is not on my list of positive selling points unless you're planning on enabling the american women to shoot gold nuggets out of their vags

Fair point, that's true. That's why I said it also depends largely on who he will decide to work with if he were elected. Presidents rarely make choices alone, so they would have loads of influence on him. I don't know who his friends are in government, but I know he hasn't got too many.

[pkay]

how do you think America would be today if McCain and Palin had won?

Obama's first term has left me jaded to mainstream politics. After he extended the Bush tax cuts I lost all faith to things turning around. I think the only thing questionable is the amount of troops that would have been withdrawn from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Osama wouldn't be dead, I think we'd have ramped down in Iraq but kept afghanistan the same, and I think the big legislation would have been revolving around the border fence instead of the health care bill.

[the acid never lies]

Some unpalatable truths about Ron Paul:
Keep rule barring immigrants from running for president. (May 2007)
Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006) WTF??
Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 100% by FAIR, indicating a voting record restricting immigration. (Dec 2003)

Sorry I see it as my duty for his brand to be seen as the toxic sludge that it is.

[the acid never lies]

I know he can sound radical and that pulls a lot of people in, but I wonder if people who have expressed admiration for him on this thread know for instance, that he opposes abortion, that he thinks the only role for government should be border security, defence and law enforcement, or is that what it takes to be a true rep for the US constitution? If so the constitution isn't worth wiping your arse with.

[pkay]

The funny thing is, illegal immigration is a positive thing in the state of Texas. Oil, Natural Gas, Farming, Construction, all benefit insanely from illegal immigration

[Siderealdb]

Politicians


Fuck 'em all

[the acid never lies]

I sometimes wonder if Robert Deniro's character in Machete is based on Ron Paul...

[borrowed]

Come on! Is the biggest mark anyone has against Ron Paul the fact that he never went to business school? Does nobody have an opinion on his views on immigration or his teetering on the fringe of far right movements? Maybe I'm asking the wrong people...

...hes trying to apply ayn rand fantasy principles to a real country

[Siderealdb]

Puppets. Major corporations control it all, not just talking the States either.

[the acid never lies]

Come on! Is the biggest mark anyone has against Ron Paul the fact that he never went to business school? Does nobody have an opinion on his views on immigration or his teetering on the fringe of far right movements? Maybe I'm asking the wrong people...

...hes trying to apply ayn rand fantasy principles to a real country

The trouble with libertarians (all the worse when he is actually a massive authoritarian on the question of immigration)

[kidshuffle]

Puppets. Major corporations control it all, not just talking the States either.

People with money are in charge?...no way...

[borrowed]

Puppets. Major corporations control it all, not just talking the States either.

People with money are in charge?...no way...

[Siderealdb]

Point is why even compare or debate candidates?

[the acid never lies]

^ Because of the objective differences. For instance, there is a clear (okay not so clear) divide between what a Tory government is like in power and what a Conservative one is like. Now, just because you think one outcome is preferential to the other doesn't mean that you're all of a sudden an unconditional supporter or even that you don't have a scathing critique of them. To simply say it's all the same is not to engage, and if you are going to talk to people about the system being broken, you have got to start from a place of relating to people. Otherwise it's just so much hot air. Your politics can be radical as you like but it is simplistic to raise your hands in the air and say 'well it's all one big cartel anyway'. Even the ruling classes are divided.

[Siderealdb]

^ Because of the objective differences. For instance, there is a clear (okay not so clear) divide between what a Tory government is like in power and what a Conservative one is like. Now, just because you think one outcome is preferential to the other doesn't mean that you're all of a sudden an unconditional supporter or even that you don't have a scathing critique of them. To simply say it's all the same is not to engage, and if you are going to talk to people about the system being broken, you have got to start from a place of relating to people. Otherwise it's just so much hot air. Your politics can be radical as you like but it is simplistic to raise your hands in the air and say 'well it's all one big cartel anyway'. Even the ruling classes are divided.

Well I live in the states as opposed to London, so your hot air argument doesn't mean too much to me. The ruling classes are only perceived as being divided imo. Batman wouldn't have been the same without the Joker right? That's just American, two party politics.

[the acid never lies]

Sorry, here in he UK it is rather late so maybe I'm not putting myself across as best as I should, I didn't mean to say that you're full of hot air. There is still no denying that the Republicans are more into union busting than are the Democrats who are slightly more into corporatism. Their interests are not fully aligned, that doesn't mean that they ARE aligned with that of the people, but then you have to think under what conditions people politics, rank and file movements, militancy etc. is likely to flourish. The funny thing is, history shows that as people's living conditions improve, they are more likely to grow confident and want to defend those gains. I assure you they are divided because not all capitalists have the same interests, although of course there is plenty of overlap. It certainly isn't the case that all the decisions are made in some dimly lit boardroom.

[AllNightDayDream]

Obama's already got this in the bag.

The race will be hilarious to watch though.

[Siderealdb]

I would disagree by suggesting that most decisions concerning the globe do occur behind closed doors. Democrats need Republicans just as much as Republicans need democrats, teamwork. That's why they are soooo apart on soooo many issues. Eventually the average American will have to align with a party that speaks for them, simply because the common perception that a third party vote will not count. Example 1: Tea Party. Example 2: Green Party. Thus reducing us to vote for a party that is the lesser of two evils, Democrats or Republicans, yet far more evil in the long run.


I would also suggest that they have such a lack of middle ground simply for their own personal concerns for job security.

[dubmatters]

I hope the US elects Bachmann or Palin, just for the lols

Because it doesn't matter who is president, the same old shit will continue, just like it has with Obama

Go team corporate america!

[wormcode]

how do you think America would be today if McCain and Palin had won?

Obama's first term has left me jaded to mainstream politics. After he extended the Bush tax cuts I lost all faith to things turning around. I think the only thing questionable is the amount of troops that would have been withdrawn from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Probably about the same, but I would have expected a "surge" in troops for a while.
A friend of mine just deployed to Iraq for ~2 years, I'm guessing he'll be coming back just in time for the elections.
He told me their job will be to shut down the small bases and hospitals, as everyone will be moving to that huge base they built instead. So yeah, doubt they will leave for good, in the near future anyway, just like still having presence in Germany, Japan, etc...