Neurolinguistic Programming

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Turnipish_Thoughts
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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by Turnipish_Thoughts » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:36 pm

parson wrote:i think reality could be described as plural based on your model of individual reality tunnels as well as using the 10 dimensional model of string theory that posits that alternate realities branch off when we make decisions. it's fallacious i believe to think we're stuck in some crystalline realm where things are solid and that the fundamental objective reality is interpreted subjectively.

Existence is plural, alternate universes is a theorem of existence. 'Reality' is what is 'real'... "real-ity". And real is subjective, its singular.

Btw its 11 dimensions, and its funny you mentioned that as I wrote a pretty long thing on that a while back, that we are multidimensional beings existing in tandem to each instance of ourselves, that we collapse down into the 4th axis by making choices, as experienced moment by moment in the 3rd dimension.

Its down to semantics really, we're speaking from different definitions of words. But in the sense of reality being plural I'd argue purely from semantics that reality is described as a subjective experience of existence.

What you believe to be fallacious i believe to be true. Its simply two different models of understanding that have different incompatible aspects. Immanuel Kant's Transcendental Idealism Gives a brilliant argument to the idea of reality purely being subjective. Check it out.
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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by parson » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:46 pm

i usually say 11 dimensions but i was prepared to show rob bryanton's imagining the 10 dimension video. people still debate the 10 or 11 thing. you seem way too certain.

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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by Turnipish_Thoughts » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:49 pm

parson wrote:i usually say 11 dimensions but i was prepared to show rob bryanton's imagining the 10 dimension video. people still debate the 10 or 11 thing. you seem way too certain.
Isn't 11 the 'all encompassing' singular point (dimension) beyond which there is nothing else to draw an axis along to another point? Anyway we're digressing.
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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by parson » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:50 pm

really though i do think there's an ultimate reality that we're all deriving subjective experiences from but i think it's a way less specific reality that is composed of forces of influence rather than things. the things we experience are the result of viewing this fundamental world through our individual, limited nervous system.

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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by parson » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:51 pm

qabalah is science. try it!

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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by Turnipish_Thoughts » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:56 pm

parson wrote:really though i do think there's an ultimate reality that we're all deriving subjective experiences from but i think it's a way less specific reality that is composed of forces of influence rather than things. the things we experience are the result of viewing this fundamental world through our individual, limited nervous system.
On that point I completely agree, its just waves and vibrations e.t.c. (well, the 'things' that the words 'waves' and 'vibrations' describe.) And yes, in my opinion too, 'things' we experience are a result of viewing this fundamental world through our own individual limited nervous system. What I'm arguing is that you propose we have some kind of control over external existence. I honestly don't see how. And if i had come to a miraculous discovery that this is true then i would have reason to believe it.

But, as we are both speaking from learned material, that we have read into, that other people have written/taught, I have to take note that my mind may well be simply applying perception to a system of belief my mind has been conditioned with.

I have to be careful that I don't begin defending someone else's truth. Or at least, if I am doing so, realize that that is what I'm doing.
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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by parson » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:57 pm


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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by parson » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:02 pm

i consider myself gnostic.

gnosis.

noetic.

u kno.

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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by parson » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:03 pm

i'm not reciting a manual about visits to the moon

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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by Turnipish_Thoughts » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:05 pm

parson wrote:qabalah is science. try it!

Come on now....

Its a philosophy.

"Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe"

"Hermetic Qabalah (From the Hebrew קַבָּלָה "reception"), is a Western esoteric and mystical tradition. It is the underlying philosophy and framework for magical societies such as the Golden Dawn, Thelemic orders, mystical societies such as the Builders of the Adytum and the Fellowship of the Rosy Cross, and is a precursor to the Neopagan, Wiccan and New Age movements."

Its about as 'scientific' as Scientology. Now I'm all for philosophy, like big time, but i don't call it, or think it's, science. ...

You seem very biased to one view of the world. Take in elements from all areas and make up your own mind, take a pinch from each, but never commit to anything.
To deny the reality of things
is to miss their reality;
to assert the emptiness of things
is to miss their reality.
The more you talk and think about it,
the further astray you wander from the truth.
Stop talking and thinking,
and there is nothing you will not be able to know.
To return to the root is to find the meaning,
but to pursue appearances is to miss the source.
At the moment of inner enlightenment
there is a going beyond appearance and emptiness.
The changes that appear to occur in the empty world
we call real only because of our ignorance.
Do not search for the truth;
only cease to cherish opinions.
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Turnipish_Thoughts
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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by Turnipish_Thoughts » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:03 pm

Let me explain a little something right now that I feel I need to.

I'm very familiar with Qabalah and understand its routes in the Talmund. As am I very familiar with Paganism and neo-spirituality. My mum classes herself as a white witch and is a certified crystal healer and Tarrot reader. I have my own Tarrot deck that I was gifted on my 16th birthday and have grown up in an environment of esoteric-ism, and have spent many years of my life since childhood having that paradigm as a substantial part of my perception of reality.

I'm very intimate with the place you are speaking from, please don't think my opinions come from a position of naive-ity.

It may confuse you then why I am arguing against what you're saying. Think about it. For someone that spent so long believing in it completely, why do I take so much of it with a pinch of salt now, when I used to utterly believe in what you're trying to express?

Say you're out and you speak with someone that agrees with your perspective, one that isn't so readily accepted in a neo-western culture. You both have a riveting conversation and speak about all manner of complex aspects of the belief system, and the other person confers your thoughts and strengthens them with their own aggreance.

So you come away from that experience believing in the system more. But is it not true (and something that I had a massive issue coming to terms with), that you are simply both regurgitating second hand information you have both picked up from the same belief paradigm? The mistake is believing that the situation you just experienced some how reinforces the objective validity of the concept. The only thing it validates is you met someone else interested in the same 'phillosophy' as you. Its important to see it as that.

Arguing that 200 years ago you would be punished by wizards for sharing secret information (and actually believing that!) is fooling yourself. You only think that because at some point you read it somewhere, someone told you, or you shared a common experience with someone in the same belief system and somehow that opinion came from that.
parson wrote:i'm not reciting a manual about visits to the moon
... yuhuh... unless you have something completely original to tell me, yes you are.

Its dangerous to take on this stuff as gospel, that's the biggest thing I learned. That it's nothing beyond a collection of beliefs. The only truth is your own truth, things you have experienced, you carry baggage of concepts you have picked up along the way and been conditioned by, you have to see that and be careful in how your mind develops. Me 'completely' accepting everything i was bought up to believe in would be the equivalent of me becoming a Jehova's Witness if i was bought up in a christian house hold. You have to challenge things, and keep challenging things and challenge the things come upon through those challenges, keep peeling away the layers of the onion, never accept anything as true, see everything as half truths, even the things you've spent so long trusting in.

That is the only way to truly expand your consciousness.

I refer back to the exert of that poem.
Last edited by Turnipish_Thoughts on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by Pedro Sánchez » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:06 pm

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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by parson » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:39 am

science.

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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by d-T-r » Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:18 pm

i see 'truth' as an omnipresent force attracting us to back into it. an ever increasing and ever decreasing frequency that meets its self back in the middle.

We only ever really perceive a single finite perspective of it, as dynamic and ever changing as it is. in order to know truth you would need to know falseness.
The closer you're perceived grasp of the truth is, the wider the reach from the falsity it would have to extend from.

You light a candle in a dark void, and to the person who can just 'see', you're just illuminating what is now in your vision, but to the person who can see aswell as sense, you're also highlighting the extent of the darkness that surrounds it.

You take a few steps or even leaps forward with your candle...to the side, wherever. and its same situation. the truth is only as bright as the light you shine upon it.
Take away the candle, and take away the person and you're left with truth*

But then how can truth be perceived without the person perceiving it?

You can't bite you're teeth and you can't taste you're tongue .but you can still get a sense of it ,from time to time, so long as that sense is coming from the non discriminating and differentiating mind.

But that doesnt negate the process of having a dualistic mind to begin either. like i said before, its like the driving force of....everything. you can't escape dualism if there isnt a duality to escape from to begin with.

one of those things that will chase its self round in circles.

As for how this relates to the thread, i figure as long as you can get you're mind to believe you are in an unstoppable force of 'progression' and expansion, then in time you can aim it in the directions and sub directions you feel you need to , regardless of how 'true' they are in the grand scheme of things.

*haha just now a fly started buzzing around above the light-shade annoyingly. tried to get it to move toward the window with a cardboard tube but it kept fucking about.
figured it would be easier to turn of the light and stop chasing it :lol:
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Pedro Sánchez
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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by Pedro Sánchez » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:37 pm

maths.
Genevieve wrote:It's a universal law that the rich have to exploit the poor. Preferably violently.

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Re: Neurolinguistic Programming

Post by Turnipish_Thoughts » Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:07 pm

d-T-r wrote:i see 'truth' as an omnipresent force attracting us to back into it. an ever increasing and ever decreasing frequency that meets its self back in the middle.

We only ever really perceive a single finite perspective of it, as dynamic and ever changing as it is. in order to know truth you would need to know falseness.
The closer you're perceived grasp of the truth is, the wider the reach from the falsity it would have to extend from.

You light a candle in a dark void, and to the person who can just 'see', you're just illuminating what is now in your vision, but to the person who can see aswell as sense, you're also highlighting the extent of the darkness that surrounds it.

You take a few steps or even leaps forward with your candle...to the side, wherever. and its same situation. the truth is only as bright as the light you shine upon it.
Take away the candle, and take away the person and you're left with truth*

But then how can truth be perceived without the person perceiving it?

You can't bite you're teeth and you can't taste you're tongue .but you can still get a sense of it ,from time to time, so long as that sense is coming from the non discriminating and differentiating mind.

But that doesnt negate the process of having a dualistic mind to begin either. like i said before, its like the driving force of....everything. you can't escape dualism if there isnt a duality to escape from to begin with.

one of those things that will chase its self round in circles.

As for how this relates to the thread, i figure as long as you can get you're mind to believe you are in an unstoppable force of 'progression' and expansion, then in time you can aim it in the directions and sub directions you feel you need to , regardless of how 'true' they are in the grand scheme of things.

*haha just now a fly started buzzing around above the light-shade annoyingly. tried to get it to move toward the window with a cardboard tube but it kept fucking about.
figured it would be easier to turn of the light and stop chasing it :lol:
Nice post :4:
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Serious shit^
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