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PinUp wrote:

pkay wrote:

herbs wrote:i respect your opinion pkay, but I really have no idea how anyone can think banning guns would possibly ever be a bad thing.

Of course, if you really want one you're able to get one anyway, but that's really not a reason to not bother banning them, is it?

I know this is something that's close to your heart, and you're not the type of fella to be swayed on what you believe in...but fucking hell, mate. It's a lot more difficult for a psycho to get kitted up over here, and I'd say - whilst not eliminating them - it reduces the chances of it happening considerably.

I don't think it would be a bad thing. Just ineffective.

We have massive borders here and an ineffective government t

Would you buy milk off a dodgy guy in an abandoned house for 3 times it's orginal worth?

People do this in the USA anywho via welfare fraud. The newest blackmarket craze in the USA is laundry detergent. Not against gun control and not for handgun permits. Just saying no amount of regulation would stop someone like this who obviously spent weeks planning this attack. This type of psycho is making a life ending decision. He's not worried about spending too much money on a gun. He's insane and would have found a way to act on his insanity.

pkay wrote: Also a school of thought that if this had happened in say Texas where concealed handguns are legal this prick would have been dead ten seconds in.

Because panicking untrained people with guns in a smoky dark cinema is just what the situation required

herbs wrote:i respect your opinion pkay, but I really have no idea how anyone can think banning guns would possibly ever be a bad thing.

Of course, if you really want one you're able to get one anyway, but that's really not a reason to not bother banning them, is it?

I know this is something that's close to your heart, and you're not the type of fella to be swayed on what you believe in...but fucking hell, mate. It's a lot more difficult for a psycho to get kitted up over here, and I'd say - whilst not eliminating them - it reduces the chances of it happening considerably.

The kevlar he was wearing is banned for everyone except LEA/military, but people get them anyway.
Also even with concealed carry permits, you can't legally carry them in most public places as they ban them by location (near a school for example) or by will since it's private property. Active or retired LEA can carry no matter what.

I think even if the flag/Iran thing has been proven to be bullshit, enough people will still believe it.

scspkr99, you need significant training to get a license. You don't just put your name on a paper.

wormcode wrote: scspkr99, you need significant training to get a license. You don't just put your name on a paper.

I'd like to know what that training is

scspkr99 wrote:

wormcode wrote: scspkr99, you need significant training to get a license. You don't just put your name on a paper.

I'd like to know what that training is

It varies by state surely so probably gonna have to google a bit, but I know a couple of people who have failed to pass it so it can't be that easy lol. I'm glad too because most people have no business carrying one on the daily.

I just don't get it. What comes over a man to drive him to this sort of act? It suggests such a surreal level of dissociation from society and even reality.
I really hopes it's something genetic that we can stamp out in the future...
(not trying to sound pro eugenic)

scspkr99 wrote:

pkay wrote: Also a school of thought that if this had happened in say Texas where concealed handguns are legal this prick would have been dead ten seconds in.

Because panicking untrained people with guns in a smoky dark cinema is just what the situation required

You have to be trained to get a concealed handgun permit

pkay wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:

pkay wrote: Also a school of thought that if this had happened in say Texas where concealed handguns are legal this prick would have been dead ten seconds in.

Because panicking untrained people with guns in a smoky dark cinema is just what the situation required

You have to be trained to get a concealed handgun permit

You have to be trained to get a kevlar vest, tear gas all that other jazz...
owait

hugh wrote:I just don't get it. What comes over a man to drive him to this sort of act? It suggests such a surreal level of dissociation from society and even reality.
I really hopes it's something genetic that we can stamp out in the future...
(not trying to sound pro eugenic)

Probably very little. I would not be the least bit surprised if he just did it to be famous (as people have before). There's some sick obsession in the western world and especially the US about being famous.

wormcode wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:

wormcode wrote: scspkr99, you need significant training to get a license. You don't just put your name on a paper.

I'd like to know what that training is

It varies by state surely so probably gonna have to google a bit, but I know a couple of people who have failed to pass it so it can't be that easy lol. I'm glad too because most people have no business carrying one on the daily.

Tbh I was asking because I'm not sure but I doubt that the training will be sufficient to have people dealing with a situation as crazy as this mornings.

wormcode wrote:

hugh wrote:I just don't get it. What comes over a man to drive him to this sort of act? It suggests such a surreal level of dissociation from society and even reality.
I really hopes it's something genetic that we can stamp out in the future...
(not trying to sound pro eugenic)

Probably very little. I would not be the least bit surprised if he just did it to be famous (as people have before). There's some sick obsession in the western world and especially the US about being famous.

hmm I dunno if you can just blame Celebrity culture. There's lots and lots of wannabe celebs out there who are utter failures in life who don't go round killing people.

pkay wrote:You have to be trained to get a concealed handgun permit

If it doesn't cover smoky dark cinema's I'm not sure how much use it will be, if it does then that suggests a bigger problem.

It's really really difficult to train people to deal with situations like that

i blame anime, death metal and video games

wormcode wrote:

herbs wrote:i respect your opinion pkay, but I really have no idea how anyone can think banning guns would possibly ever be a bad thing.

Of course, if you really want one you're able to get one anyway, but that's really not a reason to not bother banning them, is it?

I know this is something that's close to your heart, and you're not the type of fella to be swayed on what you believe in...but fucking hell, mate. It's a lot more difficult for a psycho to get kitted up over here, and I'd say - whilst not eliminating them - it reduces the chances of it happening considerably.

The kevlar he was wearing is banned for everyone except LEA/military, but people get them anyway.
Also even with concealed carry permits, you can't legally carry them in most public places as they ban them by location (near a school for example) or by will since it's private property. Active or retired LEA can carry no matter what.

I wasn't saying this wouldn't have happened if they were banned.

Although, I will say this...if the guns weren't right there in the first place, would the seed of possibility been planted in the nut jobs head?

Of course it's all speculation, but what I was saying was more an aside as opposed to being about this specific case.

scspkr99 wrote:

pkay wrote:You have to be trained to get a concealed handgun permit

If it doesn't cover smoky dark cinema's I'm not sure how much use it will be, if it does then that suggests a bigger problem.

It's really really difficult to train people to deal with situations like that

Most people who get handgun licenses have experience with guns. Most people who would return fire aren't unprepared for situations like this as they're ex cops or ex military. You're taught to shoot only what you can kill. I ain't see a licensed carrier randomly spraying bullets. A lot of the defense incidents in Texas have been one shot one.kills in public places with no innocents harmed. Air marshals receive similar crowded confines training

What comes over a man to drive him to this sort of act? It suggests such a surreal level of dissociation from society and even reality.

There's bound to be a dissociation between individuals in a society where they are allowed to buy guns.
And furthermore less respect for authority when privates have the same means (to an extent).
That is just a threat in itself and can make people lose their mind and mistake violence for a form of expression.
Its not illogical to assume that people capable of carrying out situations likes this, generally are afraid of ending up in a similar situation.

hugh wrote:

wormcode wrote:

hugh wrote:I just don't get it. What comes over a man to drive him to this sort of act? It suggests such a surreal level of dissociation from society and even reality.
I really hopes it's something genetic that we can stamp out in the future...
(not trying to sound pro eugenic)

Probably very little. I would not be the least bit surprised if he just did it to be famous (as people have before). There's some sick obsession in the western world and especially the US about being famous.

hmm I dunno if you can just blame Celebrity culture. There's lots and lots of wannabe celebs out there who are utter failures in life who don't go round killing people.

True, but then there's some who do go around killing people as we have seen in the past. Not everyone has that filter that pops on and goes ''lol no, that's stupid/wrong. you can't do that.'' I'm not just blaming celeb 'culture' though, but IMO it's a huge part of the problem. I mean, why pick a movie premier in the first place? Sure there's a crowd of people, but he could have gone into a restaurant or food store or something.

america sounds like a shit place to be

pkay wrote: Most people who get handgun licenses have experience with guns. Most people who would return fire aren't unprepared for situations like this as they're ex cops or ex military. You're taught to shoot only what you can kill. I ain't see a licensed carrier randomly spraying bullets. A lot of the defense incidents in Texas have been one shot one.kills in public places with no innocents harmed. Air marshals receive similar crowded confines training

We weren't talking about trained people we are talking about average joe's that have been through whatever they needed to go through to get a concealed licence.

80 million gun owners in America and you think the majority have appropriate training?

Though I agree with Pkay on the most pressing issue which is:

No matter what law or ban, if a psycho like this sets out to do something like this, it isn't going to stop him. But I don't agree with your interpretation of the figures here. The United States is still one of the leading countries in terms of homicide with guns rate (behind such stalwarts as Guatemala, Colombia and a couple of African Nations).

Interestingly, the correlation between gun ownership and gun crimes HAS Indeed been proven, but not the causality between them. At any rate, I can clearly say that no citizen here could get hold of a kevlar vest and riot gear, no way. A gun, yes a hunting rifle or hand gun yes, but no automatic weapons either.

Having said that, a couple of years ago a madman stormed into a daycare centre here with a knife and killed two babies and two people...so again, there are no guaranties. It's a difficult question to ask (given history and culture in the US), but I thought I'd ask it nonetheless.