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because the britian were only interested in giving the jews israel

I love how everyone ignores the fact that the "land grabs" were primarily expansion resulting from failed, multi-nation, aggression from its neighbors... something that has been acceptable throughout the history of the modern world (Kuwait, Eastern European wars, any countless number of civil wars, anyone remember russia and georgia that everyone was mad about on here for a few weeks? Yeah they changed their land post aggression too to create a buffer zone for georgia)

It's revisionist history IMO. We play the blame game until the blame starts to leave Israel.

Truth is it's the government of Israel playing games with Hamas and other muslim extremists and each of them sacrificing innocent folk in the middle. Hamas gladly sacrifices palestinians to the angry Israeli bear. They poke the bear, they poke the bear, and when the bear turns around they hand the stick to a palestinian. It's cowardace on all parts.

mIrReN wrote:oh just wondering, why is it that Palestine is not a country?
Howcome Palestine is an area in Isreal?

Because there are 3 conditions to create a country: Territory, nation and international recognition. I don't want to get into the "lobbies everywhere" argument but you catch my drift.

DFD vs Pkay.... ON ISRAEL


where's that gif of MJ eating popcorn when you need it?

Nevalo wrote:because the britian were only interested in giving the jews israel

No but they did it in an irresponsible manner and no one remembers that. It's not like the jews hopped in some VW's they jacked from the germans, grabbed all their jew gold and took a caravan to Israel and started punching Palestinians in the dick. There were millions of folks displaced with no homes, no jobs, no money, nothing and they were concentrated into a small area. Many countries (mostly the USA) took in about half of those people. Europe in its current situation couldn't really take care of these people so they relocated them to solve a problem they didn't want to have to deal with. It's very akin to how the US dealt with post slavery african-americans. We freed you now you're on your own, good fucking luck we don't feel the need to deal with this situation anymore.

pkay wrote:I love how everyone ignores the fact that the "land grabs" were primarily expansion resulting from failed, multi-nation, aggression from its neighbors... something that has been acceptable throughout the history of the modern world (Kuwait, Eastern European wars, any countless number of civil wars)

And you make it sound like it's actually acceptable... Most of those events have been severely repressed by the IPC but in over 40 years nothing has happened in the middle east.

The Israëli logic is completely fucked.

Religious views:

The religious extremists in Israel haven't got a clue what they are talking about. The foundation of their beliefs is the promised land yes, but in the holy books and doctrine, it is said that they will receive the holy land only when the messiah has returned, not before he will return. Hence, they are a bit too early with their ghetto plans. Loads of Jews around the world follow the original doctrine and don't agree with Israel's current affairs. But unfortunately, Mr. Hitler made a 6 million mistakes and I suppose, compensation for the Jews was then in order but handled poorly by the powers at be (it was British colonial land at the time by the way).

So now, almost like in a cliché psychological thriller, you have Israeli high officials and extremists, but also common people who are just looking to build al life but getting swept up in the tendencies of nationalism, imposing the very ghetto's on Palestine that they themselves had to endure at one point. Let's also not forget, that there are Israeli in Israel right now who oppose the current policy and regime. But truth of the matter is, that for every one of them, there is an American (mainly), French, German...Jew who is not living in Israel and only visits it once a year (or in a lifetime like Mekka), but feels 'compelled' to sponsor the state of Israel in its expansionist policies. Really, you would not believe how much money flows towards the Israeli defence budget from oversees wealthy sources who have inherently nothing to do with the country.

The solution? Cut it right in two. But even that would not suffice probably, for both parties involved. Historically, geographically (water), religiously it is just a complex environment. If religion could be taken out of the equasion, the conflict would handle itself better, but we as humans seemingly aren't ready to make that step yet.

Bring on post-humanism, quickly please. I want to be transformed in a self-regenerating micro-processor and wander the universe for all time until singularity is reached.

mIrReN wrote:oh just wondering, why is it that Palestine is not a country?
Howcome Palestine is an area in Isreal?

the status of the palestinian territories is disputed. numerous states recognise the state of palestine. to claim that the west bank and gaza strip are areas in israel is not factually true

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... Gaza_Strip

dubfordessert wrote:

pkay wrote:
You do realize the country you live in imposes economic blockades and movement restrictions on countries it does not approve of too right?

really? i had no idea. you've caught me in my outrageous british imperialist hypocrisy, lmao

Israel is using the methods the world has deemed acceptable....

that is complete and total bollocks, israel is using methods the world has deemed illegal multiple times

(reminding you palestine is not a country it is a geographical term and that Palestine is in an area of Israel)

both semantically trivial and exactly the area of dispute

what exactly is the difference between your countries coalition bombing huts in Pakistan after someone shells a base in afghanistan? Or imposing blockades on shipments from russia to syria because your country doesn't approve of the contents? Or when coalition forces blocked shipments into lybia to rebels because they didn't approve? Sanctions on Iran?

Israel is not a longstanding power, everything they're doing they learned from europe and the usa.

dubfordessert wrote:

butter man wrote:So this thread has influence over the situation. Most talk on the subject is just hot air. Voicing ur opinion when it matters and knowing when it matters isnt quietism, its recognising futility, not that thats me cos bringing this to attention is equally as futile.

if you don't want to be part of a futile conversation then no one is forcing you.

the idea that discussing something you have no power to directly affect is futile is false, though. your thoughts affect the perspectives and thoughts of others. shit is connected.

if humans never spoke about anything that didn't directly affect them the world would be a quieter and shittier place imo

Do you think this thread will have any effect on the situation, directly or indirectly? Im all for public forums putting the worlds rights to wrong, the world is a scarey place and writing 'fuck em all as long as im alright' is not gonna give a goodd impression to ur fellow net lurkers, fans of dubstep or otherwise.

Rönin wrote:

mIrReN wrote:oh just wondering, why is it that Palestine is not a country?
Howcome Palestine is an area in Isreal?

Because there are 3 conditions to create a country: Territory, nation and international recognition. I don't want to get into the "lobbies everywhere" argument but you catch my drift.

I was looking for a historical explanation. There's more to my questions then meets the eye . Should've put more thoughtfull questions my bad (or rephrase them) so that my intent would've been shown
anyway don't like the discussion really, don't even know why I bothered. all I can say is let it go guys

I mean cmon UN probably don't even know which border is the one that should be applied

garethom wrote:If I was your standard Israeli, I'd be paranoid as fuck all the time.

Rönin wrote:

pkay wrote:I love how everyone ignores the fact that the "land grabs" were primarily expansion resulting from failed, multi-nation, aggression from its neighbors... something that has been acceptable throughout the history of the modern world (Kuwait, Eastern European wars, any countless number of civil wars)

And you make it sound like it's actually acceptable... Most of those events have been severely repressed by the IPC but in over 40 years nothing has happened in the middle east.

and international law on territories acquired in war is clear. it is NOT acceptable to keep them. they are occupied territories.

and fuck me, appealing to the history of war to back up your point is really scraping the barrell. is genocide okay because it has been acceptable throughout the history of the modern world?

no, and international law on genocide is clear as well, pkay.

cheers.

what about integration? too much hatred to share the land?

fractal wrote:what about integration? too much hatred to share the land?

2 words;
religious tolerance.

deadly habit wrote:

garethom wrote:If I was your standard Israeli, I'd be paranoid as fuck all the time.

Not relevant but.... why are you following tomba? lol

mIrReN wrote:oh just wondering, why is it that Palestine is not a country?
Howcome Palestine is an area in Isreal?

It is if you consider it one. It's a technicality. Israel doesn't want people to consider it a country and our governments wuv Israel so they don't consider it a country either, so now it's not a country.

Borders are make-believe. It's a country if you want it to be one.

butter man wrote:

dubfordessert wrote:

butter man wrote:So this thread has influence over the situation. Most talk on the subject is just hot air. Voicing ur opinion when it matters and knowing when it matters isnt quietism, its recognising futility, not that thats me cos bringing this to attention is equally as futile.

if you don't want to be part of a futile conversation then no one is forcing you.

the idea that discussing something you have no power to directly affect is futile is false, though. your thoughts affect the perspectives and thoughts of others. shit is connected.

if humans never spoke about anything that didn't directly affect them the world would be a quieter and shittier place imo

Do you think this thread will have any effect on the situation, directly or indirectly? Im all for public forums putting the worlds rights to wrong, the world is a scarey place and writing 'fuck em all as long as im alright' is not gonna give a goodd impression to ur fellow net lurkers, fans of dubstep or otherwise.

If you don't want to discuss off topic subjects, don't come to the off topic board, or to threads that don't interest you.
It's a novel concept, I know.

op asked for a discussion, what's wrong with that? is that not what this forum is for?