Is the dream of the underground dead?

[garethom]

I mostly ignored dubstep for time. Heard Burial - Burial when it was released, didn't know it was dubstep, heard Pinch - Qawwali and Digital Mystikz - Haunted and that on Radio 1, didn't pay much attention to it, then a few years later, people were like "Do you like dubstep", didn't know what it was, so people would show me Nero, Chase & Status and that, so I thought I hated it for time

[ultraspatial]

i was into grime at first. garage didn't click with me at all up until a few years ago. heard some dubstep before like benga, skream, early dub police stuff at afterparties for dnb nights, but didn't care much for it tbh. was also into scorn and wanted to hear something like that just less idm-ish. then i stumbled upon distance, vex'd etc via internet

[pete_bubonic]

It feels like there a confusion between 'punk ethics' and 'underground'.
Punk Ethics being the DIY from the ground up, build a scene locally, put out yours or your mates releases and generally fuck off the big money offers from investors.
Underground is kinda hard to describe, but for me it seems to be music or culture that isn't the accepted norm. The music that isn't found in the Top 40. It all gets a bit subjective, to me the Beatport top 10 isn't underground. That's the pop face/side of the music.

I don't think either are dead personally, if anything the Punk Ethic is back alive and strong in a modern context via things like Kickstarter. And the musics that were underground 10 years ago (dubstep) are certainly not anymore, but I think the internet has highly sped up how things stay low for. It took all off 3 years before footwork became global.

This quite a dance centric discussion so far, thanks to another DSFer I recently experienced the joys of doom/stoner/noise rock live. nights with 35 guys and 3 girls (sound familiar?!), some underground shit I did not expect to like, but now have fallen in love with.

[ultraspatial]

punk ethics can degenerate into pretentiousness fast and it gets cringe (see: any noise fest held at some shitty squat, the art scene, wanting be 100% offline in 2014 etc) imo

diy/punk ethics and "the underground" do come together though: for whatever reason you don't get attention from the mainstream >>> start your own label, night etc

like i said earlier, people are clinging on too much to the idea of an underground. it's so easy to avoid shit in 2014.
you have metalcore (even if it's a more appealing version, still not the most commercially viable music traditionally) bands in top 10 billboard charts. or shit like harlem shake. plus there's a good chance of getting more attention via podcasts than slots on more mainstream radio. the whole idea of underground vs mainstream seems a bit pointless today imo

having said that, i'd love to be part of some small little scene, but i don't think viewing it through underground/counter culture w/e glasses is the best way to do it.

[m8son666]

35 guys

i think i know who you went with

[magma]

What Pete said.

[wub]

if anything the Punk Ethic is back alive and strong in a modern context via things like Kickstarter

You're fucking joking I hope? Punk/DIY ethos is nothing to do with what is essentially modern day panhandling IMO.

[pete_bubonic]

if anything the Punk Ethic is back alive and strong in a modern context via things like Kickstarter

You're fucking joking I hope? Punk/DIY ethos is nothing to do with what is essentially modern day panhandling IMO.

yeah I can see Kickstarter as that, especially for some of the bigger more unscrupulous companies who can blatantly afford production of their product in the first place. But as a related example Be-1ne's last kickstarter for Area009, was 40 people, presumeably all of who are already fans of the label/him. That's a wholesome great example of a modern day punk ethic. bypassing even the tiresome p&d deals which so many rely on.
imo of course.

[wub]

if anything the Punk Ethic is back alive and strong in a modern context via things like Kickstarter

You're fucking joking I hope? Punk/DIY ethos is nothing to do with what is essentially modern day panhandling IMO.

yeah I can see Kickstarter as that, especially for some of the bigger more unscrupulous companies who can blatantly afford production of their product in the first place. But as a related example Be-1ne's last kickstarter for Area009, was 40 people, presumeably all of who are already fans of the label/him. That's a wholesome great example of a modern day punk ethic. imo of course.

That's fair comment, and I'm not slating Area recordings in any way with my previous comment, for the record.


For every example like though, there are a 100 like this;

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jar ... ll-10-12-s

Soundcloud, Facebook and Twitter links for this artist have been subsequently deleted


Have a search for 'dubstep' or 'techno' on Kickstarter and see the amount of dross that is thrown up.

[pete_bubonic]

if anything the Punk Ethic is back alive and strong in a modern context via things like Kickstarter

You're fucking joking I hope? Punk/DIY ethos is nothing to do with what is essentially modern day panhandling IMO.

yeah I can see Kickstarter as that, especially for some of the bigger more unscrupulous companies who can blatantly afford production of their product in the first place. But as a related example Be-1ne's last kickstarter for Area009, was 40 people, presumeably all of who are already fans of the label/him. That's a wholesome great example of a modern day punk ethic. imo of course.

That's fair comment, and I'm not slating Area recordings in any way with my previous comment, for the record.


For every example like though, there are a 100 like this;

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jar ... ll-10-12-s

Soundcloud, Facebook and Twitter links for this artist have been subsequently deleted


Have a search for 'dubstep' or 'techno' on Kickstarter and see the amount of dross that is thrown up.

I'm not sure we can write the importance of the system off (and the relevance it has to a 2kPE) because of the abuse of it?

[wub]

if anything the Punk Ethic is back alive and strong in a modern context via things like Kickstarter

You're fucking joking I hope? Punk/DIY ethos is nothing to do with what is essentially modern day panhandling IMO.

yeah I can see Kickstarter as that, especially for some of the bigger more unscrupulous companies who can blatantly afford production of their product in the first place. But as a related example Be-1ne's last kickstarter for Area009, was 40 people, presumeably all of who are already fans of the label/him. That's a wholesome great example of a modern day punk ethic. imo of course.

That's fair comment, and I'm not slating Area recordings in any way with my previous comment, for the record.


For every example like though, there are a 100 like this;

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jar ... ll-10-12-s

Soundcloud, Facebook and Twitter links for this artist have been subsequently deleted


Have a search for 'dubstep' or 'techno' on Kickstarter and see the amount of dross that is thrown up.

I'm not sure we can write the importance of the system off (and the relevance it has to a 2kPE) because of the abuse of it?

Not at all...but I don't see the real DIY aspect you're pertaining to.

[Pedro Sánchez]

Can I ask, do you have to actually make good on your Kickstarter pledge once you have received the funding? I mean, what's to stop you blowing all the donations on coke then telling the backers the funding was pissed away due to technical difficulties.

[wub]

Can I ask, do you have to actually make good on your Kickstarter pledge once you have received the funding? I mean, what's to stop you blowing all the donations on coke then telling the backers the funding was pissed away due to technical difficulties.

Quite.

One of the 'dubstep' examples I looked at, the guy had $3500 pledged to him and has subsequently deleted his Soundcloud, Facebook and Twitter accounts.

[hugh]

i find it funny when people think they're going some bare underground ting that no one knows about and 2000 ppl turn up

thats more than what u get at your average sleezy top 10 club

id say between the age group of 18-30 'undergound' is more commercial than 'commercial' is lol

you should try working in the real world you realise 90% of people are boring fucks with no real interests

[pete_bubonic]

Can I ask, do you have to actually make good on your Kickstarter pledge once you have received the funding? I mean, what's to stop you blowing all the donations on coke then telling the backers the funding was pissed away due to technical difficulties.

Not a lot to be honest, it's happened a few times. Some guy paid for his move to another city on one failed kickstarter I saw.

Not at all...but I don't see the real DIY aspect you're pertaining to.

A kickstarter, at least the ones akin to the Area Recordings one, put the onus on the producer/indie label to:
1. Build a fan base without reliance on med/major label backing (otherwise they wouldn't need kickstarter).
2. To produce a product themselves (not just the music, the format, the delivery, the artwork, the QA etc).

But on a more 'ethical' level, it's really quite true to the anti-consumerism and encourages a community approach. All the backers are no longer purchasers or just consumers, but active participants towards the creation of the product.

I think it's a pretty great move for those smaller endeavours that otherwise wouldn't have seen the light of day and certainly those that wouldn't get a second look from distros or any other kind of investor.

Yeah it's kind of equally exciting and disappointing to see game developers get 20 million odd for their game ideas as it seems contrary to the very idea of kickstarter being a great platform of crowdfunding for the little guy. But for those little guys ala Ben, then I think it's a great way of getting a product out and true to the diy ethic.

[Pedro Sánchez]

Can I ask, do you have to actually make good on your Kickstarter pledge once you have received the funding? I mean, what's to stop you blowing all the donations on coke then telling the backers the funding was pissed away due to technical difficulties.

Quite.

One of the 'dubstep' examples I looked at, the guy had $3500 pledged to him and has subsequently deleted his Soundcloud, Facebook and Twitter accounts.

That's what makes it all too suspect. I seen one last year called 'Black Girl Abroad' with what looked like an American woman essentially asking for her education to be paid for, she claimed she was intending to share study and UK race relations experiences in short stories, she gained over $10,000 and reached her goal. Now she may of been genuine but I could never find out.

[wub]

Can I ask, do you have to actually make good on your Kickstarter pledge once you have received the funding? I mean, what's to stop you blowing all the donations on coke then telling the backers the funding was pissed away due to technical difficulties.

Quite.

One of the 'dubstep' examples I looked at, the guy had $3500 pledged to him and has subsequently deleted his Soundcloud, Facebook and Twitter accounts.

That's what makes it all too suspect. I seen one last year called 'Black Girl Abroad' with what looked like an American woman essentially asking for her education to be paid for, she claimed she was intending to share study and UK race relations experiences in short stories, she gained over $10,000 and reached her goal. Now she she may of been genuine but I could never find out.

The silly bitch who jumped off a roof and broke both her feet tried starting one as well to cover her 'expenses' during her convalescence, but it was taken down after people called her a stupid tnuc.

[hugh]

seems like it needs regulation, there are definitely a lot of people out there who won't think twice about ripping people off with something like this.

[wub]

Also, for sheer comedy value, here is a project about an EDM comedy;

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/109 ... w?ref=live

A wild, sexy & techie comedy about the hilarious perils of being a DJ in the ever-growing trend-setting Electronic Dance Music culture.

[Pedro Sánchez]

Also, for sheer comedy value, here is a project about an EDM comedy;

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/109 ... w?ref=live

A wild, sexy & techie comedy about the hilarious perils of being a DJ in the ever-growing trend-setting Electronic Dance Music culture.