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somebody was argueing it's a bad system because most DJs you've met were more on the introvertive side of things and these wouldn't be able to sell as many tickets as the extroverted ones. missed the point. (also, as long as you don't present some scientific study backing up your premises ("a lot of DJs (esp the good ones) are introverted people") I claim the contrary and we're none the wiser.)

selling out your musical integrity isn't a "small tradeoff". it's the only ressource at your disposal to justify your night's existence. I'm glad the kids you got playing for free did a good job, but I would never have a DJ play for a pat on the back. it's cheap and disrespectful, not only to the dj playing, but to the music and your own night especially. why should your punters pay anything to come to your night if you're not even ready to shell out 50quid for the guy entertaining them?

If you showed up and there were ten hot chicks that were like lemme fuck you right now, I need that cock, and one chick was like I'll fuck you but it'll cost you a hundred bucks, who you gonna go with?

^ yeah exactly.

i can respect your opinion, but honestly, i dont see how you can even make claims about my musical integrity when you're basing 5 years of history off of two posts strictly talking about the business aspect. you know nothing about what music we promoted and played, who we brought, the impact we made on our entire city... nigga please

imo pay to play was far more barbaric than getting you + 1 into a show in return for an hour set.

I use to play for free a lot down in Devon because well really there was such a small scene that I wanted to be involved and support it. It's not a big money making thing for the guys putting on nights there. Lots of times they lost a lot of money in fact. Again it was them wanting to get good music heard in the area. I'd get a +1, some beers from the rider if it was proper night with a headliner and they'd let me sleep on a couch (although often I would just party all night instead) if it was a night in the city where I wasn't living. That I was fine with. It was a small scene ran by mates. So it's not always out of greed that a dj isn't paid.

TBH I think you should generally get paid for your pulling power (so to speak), if people are going to come watch you DJ then you should be paid accordingly. Just seems like your job really (from a business point of view - places want to book djs that bring in customers). Even in underground music as soon as there is money involved DJs are brands.

wub wrote:

dubunked wrote:Wub what do you mean by "a lot of the promotion crews I know have switched to a tickets sold = set time basis"?

DJs required to sell tickets, say £12.50 a ticket, and they get £2.50 per ticket sold. DJs that sell the most tickets get their pick of the time slots.

i am so fed up of this.
been booked to play at good times (1 or 2am) so many times now and then just been moved to the start of the night or the graveyard shift just because ive refused to sell tickets (even though a good 20-30 of my mates have turned up becuase im playing anyway). a few times this has happened the person who has sold tickets and plays at those times is just a terrible dj with a controller playing youtube rips whose clearly but very little money or effort into djing. completely ruins the night and turns it into a money making venture rather than anything with any musical credibility

wolf89 wrote:

hubb wrote:

[+] Spoiler

No musicians, promoters, dancers or djs deserve pay. Get a real person job and do it out of fun

Hoping this is a sarcastic comment about the situation or something cause if not I've no idea what you're on about

It's sarcastic but Im serious but not expecting people to agree. I see working in music as a sort of vanity project. Let the village elders take it up next time.

You can have as much fun in the door as behind the counter/decks/drums
if the show is properly planned

wub wrote:

dubunked wrote:Wub what do you mean by "a lot of the promotion crews I know have switched to a tickets sold = set time basis"?

DJs required to sell tickets, say £12.50 a ticket, and they get £2.50 per ticket sold. DJs that sell the most tickets get their pick of the time slots.

Thats fuckn awkward. Never heard of this... Lazy promoters not able to do proper promotion? Would not play.

Not sure how it works money wise, but in Glasgow warmup DJ'ing is a bit different due to the licencing (10/11pm-3am most of the time), so clubs will normally be packed out fairly early, so warmup DJs are quite often playing out to a full packed out club.

Thats like how it is here too. Doors open at 9, most people show up between 10-1130ish, bar closes at 3

I DJ for free if it's dnb or dubstep, I wouldn't get to play it otherwise, I'd never sell tickets or any of that shit though

hospitality & travel isn't "for free" though?

yeah i mean if a promoter came up to me and was like play for my night and i'll pay taxi and a couple drinks i would be well up for it, just i would never go out my way to suck his dick in order to get some shit set

hubb wrote:

wolf89 wrote:

hubb wrote:

[+] Spoiler

No musicians, promoters, dancers or djs deserve pay. Get a real person job and do it out of fun

Hoping this is a sarcastic comment about the situation or something cause if not I've no idea what you're on about

It's sarcastic but Im serious but not expecting people to agree. I see working in music as a sort of vanity project. Let the village elders take it up next time.

It costs massive amounts of money though. Literally EVERYTHING in music costs lots of money. You couldn't have any electronic music or djing without putting out serious amounts in. Unless you want everyone to write music on guitars made out of scrap wood and to never record anything then music will always need to have the business side.

wolf89 wrote:

hubb wrote:

wolf89 wrote:

hubb wrote:

[+] Spoiler

No musicians, promoters, dancers or djs deserve pay. Get a real person job and do it out of fun

Hoping this is a sarcastic comment about the situation or something cause if not I've no idea what you're on about

It's sarcastic but Im serious but not expecting people to agree. I see working in music as a sort of vanity project. Let the village elders take it up next time.

It costs massive amounts of money though. Literally EVERYTHING in music costs lots of money. You couldn't have any electronic music or djing without putting out serious amounts in. Unless you want everyone to write music on guitars made out of scrap wood and to never record anything then music will always need to have the business side.

There's not a town in europe where it's impossible to get either public funding or cultural sponsorship deals if you know how to present it to them.
That's not a solution in itself if we expect all 'privately arranged' concerts to adhere to a general commercial standard ofcourse, but that is my point.
The form music entertainment and the role promotion has taken in most of society is like a strip show or a concert for kids where everything is planned and a 'show'.

A clubbing experience -says nothing about the musics quality, which I assume you agree with, but the notion makes it more likely that a promoter is money grabber than say a musician himself.
I don't even believe the expensive soundsystem culture is really that dependant on that side of the clubbing experience. I'd hate to bring psytrance into the mix (also literally ) but there's guys out there that just sit and wait for people to come and borrow their function ones.
I believe it's possible to educate the audience and by that, take part.
That's part of what I'd like musicians and djs to think about and I understand that we usually just bow down to promoters and that whole scheme because it's a quick solution.
Usually and this is with a lot of big names in mind, it's the agencies themselves that inflate the price on artists and when you talk with them directly, its more often than not possible to get a deal that is cheaper if they know what kind of people or concert you are trying to put on.
Obviously the uk club market is a lot differen than most of the world and there's a lot of tradition etc but look at something like bangface in comparison.

hubb wrote:Bedroom DJ'ing ?

[+] Spoiler

No musicians, promoters, dancers or djs deserve pay. Get a real person job and do it out of fun

Okay so I should just shell out thousands of dollars, spend years studying music theory, go to college for it, and not get paid? I don't think so.

nowaysj wrote:If you showed up and there were ten hot chicks that were like lemme fuck you right now, I need that cock, and one chick was like I'll fuck you but it'll cost you a hundred bucks, who you gonna go with?

I agree with this and I don't. I'd never ask someone to pay upfront for my music, but if they liked it, I'd suggest they give a donation or something. I work hard to do what I do.