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epithet wrote:Characters are cool but photorealism is the measure of an exceptional graff artist. Does zomby do any of that ?

farking lol. since when?

frebentos wrote:

epithet wrote:Characters are cool but photorealism is the measure of an exceptional graff artist.

you blatantly dont write and never have done, whats your basis for this ludicrous statement?

Having a few talented friends that do. I've seen one have a photo in one hand and reproduce it at 100 times scale with spray cans on a wall and dont give me that culture shit or try and tell me what graff is or isn't. I'm talking about graffiti art, not tagging and throwups down the local station.

the ORIGINS of graffiti IS from bombin and throwies...

i see what your sayin about the photrealism thing, those ones where u get murals, etc...

dats all good, but wen it comes to "graff", we are talkin proper bombs on trains, turnin the street into your sketch pad, and in this case zomby is the king of london.

epithet wrote:

frebentos wrote:

epithet wrote:Characters are cool but photorealism is the measure of an exceptional graff artist.

you blatantly dont write and never have done, whats your basis for this ludicrous statement?

Having a few talented friends that do. I've seen one have a photo in one hand and reproduce it at 100 times scale with spray cans on a wall and dont give me that culture shit or try and tell me what graff is or isn't. I'm talking about graffiti art, not tagging and throwups down the local station.

ok...lets take this one bit at a time shall we.

1.I am in no way criticizing your "friends" talent at reproducing photorealist art from photo to the wall, takes skill to do that type of shit and well in for it, photorealist "graffiti art" if you want to use that god awful term has its small place in the history of graffiti culture.

2. "...dont give me that culture shit" care to elaborate on that one? What culture shit...that graffiti is a culture in its own right? Not much shit to give on that one...its FACT! Graffiti sprang from hip hop culture in the (at a push) late seventies with Tako 149 writing his name on every bloc possible, this is where graffiti came from, its roots, and not a photorelistic throw up in sight.

3."or try and tell me what graff is or isnt" no need as you obviously dont know what graffiti IS. Graffiti was a means for underpriveldged kids from the city (new york) to gain a bit of respect for themselves, become famous, make a name. THIS is what graffiti IS, regardless of how you dress it up. Graffiti has always and will always be about GETTING UP, whether it be two second tags on every park bench or train car you can find or two minute throw ups rattled on every alley/roofie/underpass in sight.

Im into graffiti, i dont push it on people and I certianly TRY not to talk about it, its for me, purly for me, but when someone makes some rash and frankly ridiculous statement about what graffiti IS, then I cant help but give me views on the subject...

Go out, get a book on the history of hip hop or graffiti culture, read it and come back when your done.

Go wank on to some toy who doesnt know shit. I been 20 years deep into hiphop and I still don't buy the *kulture* angle. I mean what the fuck are you ? the KRS 1 of graf ?

The artform has come along way from it's origins. I know peeps who get up all over with their shitty 2 colour chromies but have no talent and think thye're living the culture cos they still rack their cans. What a fucking joke.

Plenty of em don't even like hiphop. So do me a favour. Run along and hit up the front a moving train.

epithet wrote:Go wank on to some toy who doesnt know shit. I been 20 years deep into hiphop and I still don't buy the *kulture* angle. I mean what the fuck are you ? the KRS 1 of graf ?

The artform has come along way from it's origins. I know peeps who get up all over with their shitty 2 colour chromies but have no talent and think thye're living the culture cos they still rack their cans. What a fucking joke.

Plenty of em don't even like hiphop. So do me a favour. Run along and hit up the front a moving train.

now now man...no need to get so aggro...
"Go wank on to some toy who doesnt know shit. I been 20 years deep into hiphop and I still don't buy the *kulture* angle"

what do you MEAN by you dont "buy"the culture angle? true ,it makes me cringe when someone says, "oh...im into graffiti/hip hop culture" but you cant deny that a culture exsits, so what do you mean by you dont "buy it"?

True the artform has come along way since its origins, and yes, there are plenty of toys out there who think there "living the culture" putting up shitty throws everywhere but at least they are getting up, it takes time to develop a style and todays toys putting up shit throwys everywhere, if they stick at it, will become tomorrows kings with letter styles for miles.

Regardless of characters, photorealism, graffiti is about two things, getting up and having style. One of these things is easy, you could go out tomorrow and blast up 200 shit tags and throwys, but it takes years to develop true style...you have to draw every hour of every day to get better, you need to eat sleep and breath letters, have you ever done that? Youve already mentioned that you dont do graffiti so I assume the answer is no.

"I mean what the fuck are you ? the KRS 1 of graf ?"

Hardly man, just a guy who likes graffiti...

it STARTED from hip hop...

doesnt mean its still part of it, cos quite frankly a lot of hip hop now a days doesnt really show any relation to graff.

epithet wrote: their shitty 2 colour chromies

you say this as if its shit because it only ahs two colours but the definition of a throw up is (normally) two letters in stylised form consisting of two colours.

Lol @ this thread & what it's become

allow them heated debates there.

*walks out*

Too right Von. Can't bring up anything on this forum without it descending in to some weak argument these days.

@jubscarz...hardly a weak argument

this statement was made

epithet wrote:Characters are cool but photorealism is the measure of an exceptional graff artist. Does zomby do any of that ?

I think its wrong and gave reasons why.

And oh yeah it's TAKI 183 I think you're referring to frebentos. So rather than just getting that history book cos it looks good on the coffee table maybe try reading it eh ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAKI_183

The other thing is graffiti, if you really want to get down with the history angle has been around since rock paintings in neanderthal times and aborigines blowing paint over their hands through reeds on cave walls in outback australia. Same principle. Getting up and going all out for fame.

I'm not interested in letters and style. I'm interested in talent and evolution of the art form. I don't give 2 shits about the culture either cos for all that you claim to be a part of hiphop culture you don't do anything different than the rest of us plodding along in the consumer capitalist culture we live in. If you think you're living a separate culture then tell me what it is you do differently ?

Its not that i'm aggro either i just don't like being told to 'Go out, get a book on the history of hip hop or graffiti culture, read it and come back when your done' cos i didn't learn this shit out of no book and neither did the originators.

As for the 2 colour thing, most of the infills round these ways are done with chrome coloured silver and just an outline for highlights.

dis is just long now.

epithet wrote:And oh yeah it's TAKI 183 I think you're referring to frebentos. So rather than just getting that history book cos it looks good on the coffee table maybe try reading it eh ?

true man, should have really wiki'd that first...

epithet wrote: The other thing is graffiti, if you really want to get down with the history angle has been around since rock paintings in neanderthal times and aborigines blowing paint over their hands through reeds on cave walls in outback australia. Same principle. Getting up and going all out for fame.

ok, fair enough but I am talking about the birth of modern graffiti.

epithet wrote: I'm not interested in letters and style. I'm interested in talent and evolution of the art form.

again, fair enough, you dont do graffiti so why should you be interested in letters and style, you look at a piece of graff from an outsiders perspective, whether it looks nice or not. When i look at a piece of graff Im looking at the style of the letters, how they fit together, how they've utilised the fill, highlights, second outline...you and I woudl look at the same bit of graff in two completly different perspectives.

epithet wrote: I don't give 2 shits about the culture either cos for all that you claim to be a part of hiphop culture you don't do anything different than the rest of us plodding along in the consumer capitalist culture we live in. If you think you're living a separate culture then tell me what it is you do differently?

I dont, and never said I did, in fact I agreed with you that i dont like the word culture OR toys kickign about like "yea, im living the graff culture cos i get up" you simply said that photorealism was the measure of an excpetional graffiti artist, and I completly disagree and gave my reasons why.

epithet wrote: Its not that i'm aggro either i just don't like being told to 'Go out, get a book on the history of hip hop or graffiti culture, read it and come back when your done' cos i didn't learn this shit out of no book and neither did the originators.

True, that was a bit harsh, but Iv heard to many "art student" types (not to say you are) lecture me on what graffiti IS, and they're always wrong, it gets me annoyed when people that havent had anythign to do with graff (other than have friends that do it) make a statement such as the one you made above.

epithet wrote: As for the 2 colour thing, most of the infills round these ways are done with chrome coloured silver and just an outline for highlights.

definition of a throw up.

spiderman wrote:

drifterman_ wrote:Na... there is only 1 real Zomby. I know that and I don't even graff. Know nuff of them DDS man from back in the day though.

King Zomby.

Thats by my house that is.

frebentos wrote:

epithet wrote:And oh yeah it's TAKI 183 I think you're referring to frebentos. So rather than just getting that history book cos it looks good on the coffee table maybe try reading it eh ?

true man, should have really wiki'd that first...

wiki'd...WIKI'D ? Maybe you shoulda checked yaself before ya wrecked yaself

With regards to the culture. You're going an about it like hiphop and graf is so define it for me then ?

BTW heres some photos i took and strung together in photoshop of a piece some "friends" did round our ways as a tribute to Sir Ed's passing. Critique this and don't presume to know how i look at it cos i can see all that shit you mentioned.

I'd be interested to see who you think has the better style and as a little test tell me if you can read their names without googling the image ?

Graffiti existed before hip hop and will exist after hip hop. They intertwined beautifully for a short period. Graffiti did not come from hip hop.

The original graffiti writers were far more into Black Sabbath/hard rock in general. Hip Hop wasn't 'invented' yet.

LOL @ all the baiting in this thread.

Believe me, I have nothing to prove.

epithet wrote:
wiki'd...WIKI'D ? Maybe you shoulda checked yaself before ya wrecked yaself

yup, too true on that one.

epithet wrote:
With regards to the culture. You're going an about it like hiphop and graf is so define it for me then ?

Hip Hop culture consists of 4 elements. DJ's, MC's graffiti and breaking. But ,I'll repeat, the whole culture thing is purley a historical reference, any use of the term hip hop culture today has lost ALL meaning unless used in a historical context.

epithet wrote: BTW heres some photos i took and strung together in photoshop of a piece some "friends" did round our ways as a tribute to Sir Ed's passing. Critique this and don't presume to know how i look at it cos i can see all that shit you mentioned.

I'd be interested to see who you think has the better style and as a little test tell me if you can read their names without googling the image ?

[/quote]

I cant see that as im in work, can you use another image host?

hip hop culture is irrelevent rly

any visual art is about a lot more than just accuracy
eg. picasso has had a lot more influence on the (art)world than any photorealist - his most famous works were far from straightforward figurative renderings tho

graffiti is no different
it takes skill to reproduce an image but another kind of skill entirely to create something interesting and individual from a 2 colour oneliner

pure photorealism has no identity, its scientific, quantifiable and hardly creative, which in my eyes is pretty boring rly

the best writers have the skill to do realism, but dont!

sully_shanks wrote:
the best writers have the skill to do realism, but dont!

sums it up imo.