I put it to you that Muslimgauze invented Dubstep in 1995

[masstronaut]

Dubstep wins, as long as you can't define it.

The way some people talk, 'dubstep' evolved in some kind of near vacuum where all that existed was jungle, 2-step garage and dub reggae.

The fact that various aspects of dubstep appear earlier in other forms just reinforces their validity.

It's all music.

We learn from the past, and select the best bits.

It ain't the sound of the city, it's the sound of the human race rearing up on it's hind legs and howling at the future, when it's good.

[distinction]

Did Muslim Gauze give it the name "Dubstep"?

No, therefore he didnt create Dubstep.

Simple.

[djgyn]

Did Muslim Gauze give it the name "Dubstep"?

No, therefore he didnt create Dubstep.

Simple.

Who cares who named it? The New York Dolls and Iggy Pop didn't coin the term punk, but to say they didn't make punk music seems pretty silly. The Sex Pistols didn't even call themselves punk!

As I've asserted before, Muslimgauze and Richard Kirk and Mick Harris were very progressive in making leftfield dub-influenced electronic music. They are the New York Dolls, Stooges, and Suicide of dubstep, and people like Zed Bias are like our Sex Pistols.

OK, enough of my punk:dubstep analysis...

[djshiva]

I always thought Stereotyp was credited with writing one of the first dubstep tunes? Can't remember the name off the top of my head, but it was released on G-Stone.

Although it might not be pure dubstep, I point you in the direction of This Ain't Tom & Jerry by Cousin Cockroach (aka Dego 4Hero) which came out about 3 years ago on Bugz' label Bitasweet. J da used play it quite a lot on his show, but the mad thing is that it was written in about 1992, pretty much before even DnB as we know it had come into existence. Maybe it's a little more of a broken beat or dancehall vibe, but it's pretty damn close to a lot of dubstep too. Worth doing a Google for some audio if you don't know the tune.

Cousin Cockroach tunes are the bizness!!!

[the947sw11]

Ive been diggin out the old Shut Up & Dance 12's as im going to hear them tonight.

There are a couple of tracks by Rum & Black that are def going down a prototype grime path. Mash up of breakbeats, bashments and square waves...

Good point. As well as SUAD, listen to early south London hip-hop like Hijack and Hardnoise and you've got the real roots of grimey spitting as well.

I always used to say that Unique 3's "Rhythm Takes Control" was the real origin of UK Garage, but everyone down here laughed (no-one wants to admit that Bradford might have been influential lol) - but listen to that bassline and drum programming...

[seckle]

Ive been diggin out the old Shut Up & Dance 12's as im going to hear them tonight.

There are a couple of tracks by Rum & Black that are def going down a prototype grime path. Mash up of breakbeats, bashments and square waves...

Good point. As well as SUAD, listen to early south London hip-hop like Hijack and Hardnoise and you've got the real roots of grimey spitting as well.

I always used to say that Unique 3's "Rhythm Takes Control" was the real origin of UK Garage, but everyone down here laughed (no-one wants to admit that Bradford might have been influential lol) - but listen to that bassline and drum programming...

Unique 3 and Smith & Mighty...legends. Smith and Mighty should be making music in this scene.

[juliun_c90]

Who cares who named it? The New York Dolls and Iggy Pop didn't coin the term punk, but to say they didn't make punk music seems pretty silly. The Sex Pistols didn't even call themselves punk!

As I've asserted before, Muslimgauze and Richard Kirk and Mick Harris were very progressive in making leftfield dub-influenced electronic music. They are the New York Dolls, Stooges, and Suicide of dubstep, and people like Zed Bias are like our Sex Pistols.

OK, enough of my punk:dubstep analysis...

some serious truth here. the person who names it doesn't invent the genre and it would be ridiculous to suggest that's the case. any myriad of factors (not least the media) usually take credit for that one.

i also feel trying to pinpoint an exact starting point (not that everyone's necessarily trying to do that here) is utterly futile/stupid. surely history's taught us that? yeah there are touchstones, but to say ''this was the first xyz track''- stupidity.

take a step back for a moment- that phrase ''dubstep'' that we all chuck about so freely is in some senses *shock horror* actually a little bit ludicrous when you think about it objectively: have you tried explaining it to anyone who hasn't heard anything that they can identify under the banner for example, or even anyone who enjoys music but isn't necessarily down with -what are often justifiably so to them- arbitrary genre classifications? what did you reference?

for a start those getting so sanctimonious should think about the fact that the very nomenclature of the scene references JA music pioneered decades ago and a UK/US house-based hybrid form that's been around for time.

the fact that we're all referencing all these different artists surely demonstrates there's a continuum and constant process of evolution/influence/counter-influence.

nothing's in a vacuum. perhaps ''a roots of the roots of dubstep'' compilation's on its way- blackdown, you out there?

[kidkut]

Ive been diggin out the old Shut Up & Dance 12's as im going to hear them tonight.

There are a couple of tracks by Rum & Black that are def going down a prototype grime path. Mash up of breakbeats, bashments and square waves...

Good point. As well as SUAD, listen to early south London hip-hop like Hijack and Hardnoise and you've got the real roots of grimey spitting as well.

I always used to say that Unique 3's "Rhythm Takes Control" was the real origin of UK Garage, but everyone down here laughed (no-one wants to admit that Bradford might have been influential lol) - but listen to that bassline and drum programming...

Unique 3 and Smith & Mighty...legends. Smith and Mighty should be making music in this scene.

Rob Smith (who i belive im right in saying was one half of them) does make dubstep as far as i know, in fact i heard him play not long ago and the tunes were roooooooough.

[electric eliminator]

Then theres Bandulu, who had a very futurist take on dub over 13 years ago.
And they are all londoners!

[vertigo]

I don't understand the fever for labeling music.

What I like on Dubstep is the complexity of the rythms and harmony that you may find in other great artists as DJ Krush, DJ Shadow, or Herbie Hancock.

In my opinion, the moment we "brand" music, is the beginning of its own decline (happening with D&B nowadays)

[nailik]

My first listens to dubstep really reminded me of the feel of a lot of tracks on a Virgin comp out in the mid 90s called Macro Dub Infection.

http://www.discogs.com/release/115747

It's got Scorn, Muslimgauze, Iration Steppers, Tricky, 4 Hero, Coil, The Rootsman etc on it.

A lot of it is intensely dark, dubby, heavy and atmospheric. Sound familiar?

[rubin]

observe sadiq bay

dubbed out sickness

[viceroy]

Judy Do (99% sure, im at school and cant access the record) by the Thomson Twins. 1980's dubstep.

The next mix I post will have this gem on it.

[vertigo]

[quote="Viceroy"]Judy Do (99% sure, im at school and cant access the record) by the Thomson Twins. 1980's dubstep.
quote]

good reference. I dance it when was a teenager !

[viceroy]

Judy Do (99% sure, im at school and cant access the record) by the Thomson Twins. 1980's dubstep.
quote]

good reference. I dance it when was a teenager !

All your base are belong to us?

[djgyn]

My first listens to dubstep really reminded me of the feel of a lot of tracks on a Virgin comp out in the mid 90s called Macro Dub Infection.

http://www.discogs.com/release/115747

It's got Scorn, Muslimgauze, Iration Steppers, Tricky, 4 Hero, Coil, The Rootsman etc on it.

A lot of it is intensely dark, dubby, heavy and atmospheric. Sound familiar?

Hells yeah. Great comp.

[bedward]

I put it to you that it was Dubstep invented Muslimgauze as long ago as 1784!

This has been proven time and time again and naysayers get air.
It's the Truth!

[viceroy]

Judy Do (99% sure, im at school and cant access the record) by the Thomson Twins. 1980's dubstep.
quote]

good reference. I dance it when was a teenager !

All your base are belong to us?

Its Kamikaze, not Judy Do.

[antilynd]

My first listens to dubstep really reminded me of the feel of a lot of tracks on a Virgin comp out in the mid 90s called Macro Dub Infection.

http://www.discogs.com/release/115747

It's got Scorn, Muslimgauze, Iration Steppers, Tricky, 4 Hero, Coil, The Rootsman etc on it.

yea, I still got that one on tape... Alec Empire, Wagon Christ, Tortoise (!), Spring Heel Jack, Maurizio, HiM (not HIM), Bill Laswell... good times. Wasnt it compiled by The Bug btw?

[dynamixuk]

there were also some IDM tracks in the late 90ties which now could be put into the dubstep box
for me first "grime" track was mr oizo's "flat beat"

flat beat grime? erm if u check analogue worms attack there is alot more "grimey" tunes on it than flat beat