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Shonky wrote: tedious stoner conversations

he he he say no more

half step is to dubstep, as the 2-step (ie. alex reece's "pulp fiction" ie. boom kack, boom kack rhythm instead of breaks etc.) is to drum&bass.

tone.def wrote:half step is to dubstep, as the 2-step (ie. alex reece's "pulp fiction" ie. boom kack, boom kack rhythm instead of breaks etc.) is to drum&bass.

disagree because there is more rhythmic variation in dubstep's half-step tunes than there is in dnb's 12step tunes IMO

tone.def wrote:half step is to dubstep, as the 2-step (ie. alex reece's "pulp fiction" ie. boom kack, boom kack rhythm instead of breaks etc.) is to drum&bass.

thats a load of rubbish, sorry. just HOW?

tone.def wrote:half step is to dubstep, as the 2-step (ie. alex reece's "pulp fiction" ie. boom kack, boom kack rhythm instead of breaks etc.) is to drum&bass.

Wrong. Half step can have a hell of a lot of rhythmic variation within that basic template.

i reckon i heard a couple of d1 tunes where hes got it locked. the way the bass is arranged with the beats, he gives a feeling of spaciousness, yeh some of his riddims can feel either slow or upbeat depending on how u listen to it.

i personally been messing with the polyrythms a bit, literally mixing up a half step beat with something faster over the top.. has some interesting results..

UFO over easy wrote:

tone.def wrote:half step is to dubstep, as the 2-step (ie. alex reece's "pulp fiction" ie. boom kack, boom kack rhythm instead of breaks etc.) is to drum&bass.

Wrong. Half step can have a hell of a lot of rhythmic variation within that basic template.

I think when it's done well, I'd agree. However a lot of what I hear just sounds like shit hip-hop 101 beats with whoomp bass.

Much rather hear Benny I'll, El-B, Horsepower, Menta, Darqwan, etc - bit more shimmy in the beats. Think I'm probably in the minority on this one though.

And I have no idea what you're talking about tone def - I can't read beats. Would prefer less kack and more boom though

ozols man wrote:i reckon i heard a couple of d1 tunes where hes got it locked. the way the bass is arranged with the beats, he gives a feeling of spaciousness, yeh some of his riddims can feel either slow or upbeat depending on how u listen to it.

i personally been messing with the polyrythms a bit, literally mixing up a half step beat with something faster over the top.. has some interesting results..

^^This is one of the guys you non-halfstep heads should be checking - good things to come from him I think.

shonky im with you on the old skool swing. bring it back !!

Shonky wrote:

Parson ATX wrote:if its too slow you're not high enough

It's odd how people bitch on about dnb being mindless drug music but can't see the same thing happening with dubstep. If you have to be that off your tits to get into it - it's really not that good.

word!

as long as it doesn't sound like (nu skool) breaks i'm cool

jahtao wrote:as long as it doesn't sound like (nu skool) breaks i'm cool

I never believed that a music based on breakbeats (being an old hip-hop and funk fan) could be so totally devoid of inspiring rhythms.

Shonky wrote:

UFO over easy wrote:

tone.def wrote:half step is to dubstep, as the 2-step (ie. alex reece's "pulp fiction" ie. boom kack, boom kack rhythm instead of breaks etc.) is to drum&bass.

Wrong. Half step can have a hell of a lot of rhythmic variation within that basic template.

I think when it's done well, I'd agree. However a lot of what I hear just sounds like shit hip-hop 101 beats with whoomp bass.

Yup, but the potential is there still...

Halfstep as an idea is no more or less restrictive than any other, that's just common sense. I actually hear a lot more raw groove and funk in Youngsta sets than I do in old school swinging stuff. A lot of that stuff sounds funky but in an incredibly forced way to me..

As for hearing less kack.. no arguing with that

i think that the half step thing gives the music one of its main features, th other being the intense sub bass.

the reason why half step beats work so well is because it creates more atmosphere and tension. take a loefah tune for example. his production is alwayz very dark and mysterious with a lot of reverb on the snare and spaced out beats - this is what creates the dark atmospheric style he does so well (well that and the fact thats hes just a straight up badbwoy producer).

i think because dubstep in generally is a dark form of music i think its just the halfstep that suits it more. I think if people were to go back to doing the 2step thing it would be greatly questioned even though thats where it came from at the end of the day.........

its not like thats the two binary opposites available to producers! i think the point is theres a LOT of other things to be done with a measure of drums !

D-Code wrote:i think that the half step thing gives the music one of its main features

Halfstep does not equal dubstep though, although lately you'd be forgiven for thinking so. The roots are in 2-step, minimal techno, dub (surprise!) and the low end boom of jungle, half-step's a comparatively recent phenomena. The amount of variety that was on offer in the old dubplate.net days was what got me sold on this music, and it's the recent lack of same that's feeding my current disinterest.

Apart from the last Blackdown single, I haven't bought any new dubstep in months, whereas a few years back I'd probably be snapping up every other release.

Some of the old Tempa releases managed more eclectism in one release than some artists seem to have managed in over a year.

to me the key idea to take from halfstep is asymmetric bars.

2step was still based on the Kick-Snare-Kick-Snare pattern, which is pretty symmetrical and became restrictive.

With halfstep, now it's reduced down to Kick_space_Snare_space the thing to think about is how many interesting asymetrical patterns can evolve up out of it.

This is a difficult topic to wade in on, there seem to be a number of different points of contention.

I think an important thing to do is to frame the discussion...what do ppl actually mean when they say halfstep? Is it strictly referring to rhythm, or are ppl beginning to use the phrase to connote a distinct atmosphere and aesthetic (i.e. the youngsta school)? Does the snare have to hit on the 3rd beat to qualify? I guess my question is whether ppl are reducing the subgenre to something unfairly specific then criticising it for being limited...

Another point is who are we actually talking about? When i think of the majority of major producers, i dont see the emulation or stagnation that some seem to be speaking of... dmz, kode9, benga, skream, pinch, d1, distance, the list goes on... and in terms of releases which are we speaking of? Its not hating to openly criticise, (so long, for me, as its done with an awareness of subjectivity) the scenes fucked if it is, but i've snapped up practically everything thats come out, and its all sitting proudly next to my ghost, tempa, locked on etc. There are clearly increasing numbers of mediocre tunes beginning to surface, and with increasing chance of getting released, but there is so much incredible 'halfstep' being made, which is breaking new rhythmic ground, that i dont know whether its appropriate to criticise the form itself.

And a key issue for me is whether all we want from music is rhythmic variation. For me there's a lot more to music than rhythm, and a lot of halfstep producers are responsible, in my mind, for creating some of the most exciting and progressive atmospheres and soundscapes (for want of a less wanky word) about. Its not for naught that Bengas been compared to herbie hancock or carl craig. Look at Kode9's kingstown remix, or 9 samurai, or backwards. Loefahs picked up an all but lost thread of 20 years and mutated it into some of the most futuristic shit going. Mala's bury the bwoy, left leg out, hunter, learn. Pinch's qawalli, shackleton's material. The new stuff coming out of the states from matty g and juju. I could go on but i feel the point is clear... within a single, relatively small scene, theres an unbelievable degree of variety in something much more than rhythmic diversity

elgato wrote:
I think an important thing to do is to frame the discussion...what do ppl actually mean when they say halfstep? Is it strictly referring to rhythm, or are ppl beginning to use the phrase to connote a distinct atmosphere and aesthetic (i.e. the youngsta school)? Does the snare have to hit on the 3rd beat to qualify? I guess my question is whether ppl are reducing the subgenre to something unfairly specific then criticising it for being limited...

The way I see it is just in the groove of the tune. How would you dance to it? A lot of people talk about placement of snares but that's like people who try to mix tunes by matching snares.. a little bit silly.

1234 or 1 2 3 4 .

ozols man wrote:i personally been messing with the polyrythms a bit, literally mixing up a half step beat with something faster over the top.. has some interesting results..

Kode 9 does this a lot.

i dunno about all that stuff. all i kno is when im in a dance, nowadays way too often sets are soudning boring. end of. listing a load of producers and track titles isnt going to make them any less boring. and yes.
rhythm, riddim, is kind of pretty fucking important if were still talking about this as dance music, which i hope we are becuase im not on all this meditative escapist shit man, i just wanna bruck out to sick tunes