Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:30 pm
It was more of a rant actually.rekall wrote:i started this as more of a monologue.
Dubstepforum.com
worldwide dubstep community
https://www.dubstepforum.com/forum/
(re: skream - "traitor") -- much ado about offbeat
Page 3 of 4
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:31 pm
Stop it before it get out of hand. Did you see the thread last night with JJ and Ekaj gettin all hot. It was funny. I wanted to contribute but i was to pissed 
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:31 pm
p.s. "drops a beat early"
people might not know how to flail their arms and legs for a whole half second!!!
OH GOD THE HORROR!
i'm going to go listen to more hellfish+producer to deprogram some more.
people might not know how to flail their arms and legs for a whole half second!!!
OH GOD THE HORROR!
i'm going to go listen to more hellfish+producer to deprogram some more.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:02 pm
It's a message board, I assumed as you were posting to the public you might like a reply.rekall wrote:actually no where did i ask, i started this as more of a monologue.UFO over easy wrote:Until the tune drops a beat early and everything's messed uprekall wrote:one man's "out of time" is another man's "pleasant syncopation."
You did ask for people opinions dude.
but thanks just the same for the comments.
(no thanks for the personal attacks suggesting along the lines that i'm just a noob.)
I wasn't attacking you, I just assumed as you couldn't identify the first beat of a 4/4 bar that you hadn't done any music theory. Why would you assume it'd be a negative thing to be a beginner anyway? The other reason I thought you might need some help was that you thought I'd mixed Traitor starting on the second beat of the bar when I hadn't - shows a simple misunderstanding of the way the tune is structured.
It's not that, it's more the fact that it just sounds wrong. The melody line sounds out of place, and it's not how the tune was designed to sound. Seeing as you've been agonising about this so much I'd assume you think there is a right or wrong way to do this...rekall wrote:p.s. "drops a beat early"
people might not know how to flail their arms and legs for a whole half second!!!
OH GOD THE HORROR!
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:27 pm
it's a shit tune anyway, just forget it.
if you all knew a bit more about music theory, you'd know this was a shit tune, and that's a fact.
if you all knew a bit more about music theory, you'd know this was a shit tune, and that's a fact.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:20 pm
since 'music theory' is still being bandied about:
syn‧co‧pa‧tion –noun
a shifting of the normal accent, usually by stressing the normally unaccented beats.
charleston variations
syn‧co‧pa‧tion –noun
a shifting of the normal accent, usually by stressing the normally unaccented beats.
charleston variations
-- http://hum.lss.wisc.edu/jazz/the.article.htmlJazz accents typically occur on the "other side" of the metric accents, thus providing both a tug against the meter and a balance within it. Thus, in a series of quarter notes in 4/4 time, the metric accents occur on beats 1 and 3 and jazz accents (since about 1940 or so) appear on beats 2 and 4. Eighth notes work the same way. The 4/4 meter implies stress on the first eighth note of a beat and jazz accents occur on the second (with the durations of the eighth note pair developing into a near triplet relationship). In the notational examples discussed so far, the Charleston motive has always started on metrically strong beats of a 4/4 measure (which determines its second attack to occur on metrically weak beats i.e. positions of strong jazz accents.) With the exception of So What , which starts on beat 3, all the previous examples begin on beat 1. So, the all-important characteristic of accent balance is present in the Charleston motive since its two attack points contain both a strong metric accent (beat 1 or 3) and a strong jazz accent (beat 2 1/2 or 4 1/2).
-- http://www.jazzcontinuum.com/jc_rtcl5.htmlThe framework which is improvised upon, a lead sheet for 'So What' for example, may be written down. But in most circumstances a tune as simple as 'So What' would probably not be written down at all. It would be previously memorised or just heard and then copied by the players. But listen to any of the multitude of recorded performances of that tune and one will quickly realise that what does pre-exist, the simple call-and-response melody, is only a starting point, one of many possible ways it could - and will - go.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:07 pm
I know that, I'm a drummer.
Syncopation doesn't change the beats of the bar. The structure of a syncopated 4/4 bar is the same as the structure of an unsyncopated 4/4 bar. It still starts on beat one - it's just the emphasis of the beats that's changed, not the beats themselves.
The highlighted bit in the second quote does not apply to a simple dubstep tune with a normal structure. They're talking about improvisation for goodness' sake..
I'm not judging anything by the melody itself, but by the feel of the whole tune. This isn't something that's debatable, it's just the way it is.
I don't understand what you're trying to say - are you trying to equate DJing to free improv jazz??
Syncopation doesn't change the beats of the bar. The structure of a syncopated 4/4 bar is the same as the structure of an unsyncopated 4/4 bar. It still starts on beat one - it's just the emphasis of the beats that's changed, not the beats themselves.
The highlighted bit in the second quote does not apply to a simple dubstep tune with a normal structure. They're talking about improvisation for goodness' sake..
I'm not judging anything by the melody itself, but by the feel of the whole tune. This isn't something that's debatable, it's just the way it is.
I don't understand what you're trying to say - are you trying to equate DJing to free improv jazz??
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:11 pm
funny when i syncopate i count polyrhythmically usually 6/8 or 3/4 over an existing 4/4 rhythm. why not think of a 2nd tune being mixed over a base the same way? yes, blending two records can in fact be jazz.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:12 pm
Because both tunes that're being mixed are in the same time signature.rekall wrote:funny when i syncopate i count polyrhythmically usually 6/8 or 3/4 over an existing 4/4 rhythm. why not think of a 2nd tune being mixed over a base the same way?
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:15 pm
actually, to me it does or else i wouldn't have bothered with the [ b ] tags.UFO over easy wrote:The highlighted bit in the second quote does not apply to a simple dubstep tune with a normal structure.
depending on where you end up placing the snare of one tune with respect to another you do in fact end up with exactly the two sets of accents as per the bolded section i quoted above.
as for the melodic bits getting shifted around as a result of doing that, and it sounding "wrong" that's really quite subjective.
the only reason i'm carrying on about this is because you are doing same.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:18 pm
Lets have drum off.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:18 pm
The point of syncopation is that the emphasis of the rhythm lies differently in an existing 4/4 template. That template is unchanging. Syncopation isn't just lining up two different sets of 4/4 and spinning them out of time, it doesn't work like that.. you don't have enough power over the tracks when you're DJing to make that sound good. You can't improvise in the same way you can if you're playing a live instrument.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:20 pm
oh, you mean for example layering a second percussive element (snare) so it fits 'in between' the upbeat and downbeat, on the half beats, thus accenting a previously unaccented beat? something like that?UFO over easy wrote:The point of syncopation is that the emphasis of the rhythm lies differently in an existing 4/4 template.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:21 pm
metalboxproducts wrote:Lets have drum off.
out t u lot, half 4 AM giggles
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:26 pm
You still not gone to bed yet? Still buzzin from Mr 9? Was the Space ape there?doomstep wrote:metalboxproducts wrote:Lets have drum off.
out t u lot, half 4 AM giggles
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:28 pm
TRY to tell that to any number of techno dj's who have made a whole career out of tweaking mid-measure cue points.UFO over easy wrote:Syncopation isn't just lining up two different sets of 4/4 and spinning them out of time, it doesn't work like that.. you don't have enough power over the tracks when you're DJing to make that sound good.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:34 pm
nahmetalboxproducts wrote:You still not gone to bed yet? Still buzzin from Mr 9? Was the Space ape there?doomstep wrote:metalboxproducts wrote:Lets have drum off.
out t u lot, half 4 AM giggles
I wish
Im too scared t go t my 'dorm' ina backpackers n ting
they was all beddin down as I left
if I go up der it'll be bad fr me
why do I always get stuck ina room full of gyals???
must be my babyface looks innit
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:19 pm
not to be taken seriously ^^^Bedward wrote:it's a shit tune anyway, just forget it.
if you all knew a bit more about music theory, you'd know this was a shit tune, and that's a fact.
i once saw a sign in a pub saying,
"word to the wise: never publicly engage a fool in argument. most ppl can't tell the difference."
sth like that anyway.
never made sense to me...
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:26 pm
WTF
Just mix the fucking records man
Just mix the fucking records man
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:25 pm
alieDigital wrote:WTF
Just mix the fucking records man
just mix
expirement
its not hard to fling a needle on a tune and mix