Dubstepforum.com

"Wonky is not so much a genre unto itself. Instead it operates as a kind of trans-generic mutational agent, spreading seamlessly between bpm species, liquidating textures, distending rhythmical consistency like so much manipulable sonic sticky toffee: All that is solid melts into a new electronic psychedelia, as fluid and mellifluous as the globalised capitalism which spreads it. Wonky in the sense of off-key, out of place, misshapen, breaking through an electronic music environment increasingly characterised by myopic microgenre developments and parodic stylistic affectations, as a set of strategies to be applied to a pre-existing template."

http://splinteringboneashes.blogspot.co ... -rave.html

essential reading for all people in this thread i believe

Samuel Sifter wrote:

J-sh wrote:instrumental hip hop?

surely.

Exactly.

if a hip hop instrumental is made with an MC in mind and with giving space for someone else to showcase, then no

if a hip hop instrumental gets glitchy with cuts and samples, and doesn't give a fuck or make room in the beat for someone else to be talking over the beat but composes merely because that's what the producer wants to hear, then yeah

what i'm finding is that this is one of the main distinguishing characteristics between what i've been calling left-field hip hop and standard hip hop instrumentals.

so.....no.

bellybelle wrote:

Samuel Sifter wrote:

J-sh wrote:instrumental hip hop?

surely.

Exactly.

if a hip hop instrumental is made with an MC in mind and with giving space for someone else to showcase, then no

if a hip hop instrumental gets glitchy with cuts and samples, and doesn't give a fuck or make room in the beat for someone else to be talking over the beat but composes merely because that's what the producer wants to hear, then yeah

what i'm finding is that this is one of the main distinguishing characteristics between what i've been calling left-field hip hop and standard hip hop instrumentals.

so.....no.

thats why it's instrumental hip hop

not hip hop instrumentals

Instrumental hip hop, becuase it has all the aesthetics of hip hop, similar tempo, similar production techniques - but with no vocalist so has more liberty with the mid range sounds/tempo

hip hop instrumentals, however, are, like you say, beats made for an mc.

At the end of the day call it what you like, but in my opinion when dilla was doing it people called it hip hop - clearly the LA beats movement and the subsequent international projects are very much influenced by dilla's sound. And have taken it to wonderful and exciting places, and I, like everyone else, am loving it, and hanging on every release.

Everything about the tone, mood, experimentation, scene is hip hop at its essence.

represented instrumentally

therefore it seems logical to me to call is instrumental hip hop, if not just hip hop.

So, of course in my opinion, yes

J-sh wrote:thats why it's instrumental hip hop

not hip hop instrumentals

Instrumental hip hop, becuase it has all the aesthetics of hip hop, similar tempo, similar production techniques - but with no vocalist so has more liberty with the mid range sounds/tempo

hip hop instrumentals, however, are, like you say, beats made for an mc.

At the end of the day call it what you like, but in my opinion when dilla was doing it people called it hip hop - clearly the LA beats movement and the subsequent international projects are very much influenced by dilla's sound. And have taken it to wonderful and exciting places, and I, like everyone else, am loving it, and hanging on every release.

Everything about the tone, mood, experimentation, scene is hip hop at its essence.

represented instrumentally

therefore it seems logical to me to call is instrumental hip hop, if not just hip hop.

So, of course in my opinion, yes

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:13461

^^ thats what I mean. And using that term has helped me find a lot of other lists full of artists and tunes that I'm specifically looking for. You could call it hip hop from glarnack 9 on the wordless tip if you want....as long as I don't have to sift through a lot of hip hop bs to get to what I want, then I'm good.

bellybelle wrote:

J-sh wrote:thats why it's instrumental hip hop

not hip hop instrumentals

Instrumental hip hop, becuase it has all the aesthetics of hip hop, similar tempo, similar production techniques - but with no vocalist so has more liberty with the mid range sounds/tempo

hip hop instrumentals, however, are, like you say, beats made for an mc.

At the end of the day call it what you like, but in my opinion when dilla was doing it people called it hip hop - clearly the LA beats movement and the subsequent international projects are very much influenced by dilla's sound. And have taken it to wonderful and exciting places, and I, like everyone else, am loving it, and hanging on every release.

Everything about the tone, mood, experimentation, scene is hip hop at its essence.

represented instrumentally

therefore it seems logical to me to call is instrumental hip hop, if not just hip hop.

So, of course in my opinion, yes

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:13461

^^ thats what I mean. And using that term has helped me find a lot of other lists full of artists and tunes that I'm specifically looking for. You could call it hip hop from glarnack 9 on the wordless tip if you want....as long as I don't have to sift through a lot of hip hop bs to get to what I want, then I'm good.

yeh i guess i cant argue with what other people are calling it
and left field hip hop is pretty accurate.
i dont think we really disagree, i mean we can all say its an offshoot of hip hop?

yeah we don't disagree. it's been a trial and a half just finding more stuff like it. i mean....i knew what I liked, but if you tell people you like hip hop or just go through hip hop forums and the like, there's just sooooo many cats in that scene who are flooding it with stuff thats not what i was looking for. And if dubsteppers think they have it bad with how many producers are making midrange cack and wobble, its like at least 10xs worse wading through the amount of cats who swear they're gonna be the next hip hop allstar. Its like trying to find a needle in a hip hop haystack lol I still think its hip hop. I think to a degree glitch hop is still hip hop too (I realize I might be in the minority on that one). I don't mind calling it that because when its on, its on--hip hop has been responsible for some seriously amazing music and I'm forever grateful.

its all jazz and jazz is all bach and bach was a biter

slguabed wrote:its all jazz and jazz is all bach and bach was a biter

haha its weird actually i remember having a debate a a couple of years ago with a mate who was sayin 'dubsteps just slowed down drum and bass' and i was saying well at the end of the day every style of music is an evolution of what comes before (although i think dubstep is more an evolution of garage and dub than dnb).

So i suppose in that sense to say 'wonky' or 'leftfield hip hop' is just hip hop is kind of reducing the changes these producers have made to the sound.

I think its just the sort of problems you come across when you try and define music with words. Like Aphex said, you should just listen to music it's not made to be talked about, I dont strictly agree with that but i can see why he would come to that conclusion.

Why not just call it Beats? That's what it is to me, just beats with lots of screwed up samples and crazier bass.

The serious discussion and the desperate search for a new term is as awful as the name imo.