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I predict this thread will be at least 6 pages long by the time I come back from the shops.

Surface_Tension wrote:how is it that you can always make every post about my label somehow?

oh come on, you've mentioned your label either directly or indirectly four times on this page alone

anyway, i can't be bothered arguing with you

You can't please everybody. To some it might be offensive to others it is not. I've never met a homosexual person in my life that is offended by that, and my sister is a lesbian.

Mate, I once saw a Jewish man walking down to Stamford Hill. He seemed alright.

That's why I now regularly refer to anything that isn't decent as "yo homie, that's so fucking Yiddish!" or "buy me a pint you dirty zionist hook-nosed money hoarding Israelite".

It's okay because I don't mean it to be insulting.

this film was fucking funny

fuck you if you're offended by your own body parts, dickhead

Magma wrote:

Surface_Tension wrote:Nothing else matters. It's offensive. The End. it's a pejorative term.

This is the important thing. But then, frankly, getting offended is a pretty minor thing. As long as no malice was intended then a rational person should not take offense... unfortunately, we have to make allowances for those that aren't totally logical (especially when it comes to taking offense to things) and people that won't realise that when someone says "Oh, gay...." they're actually using an entirely different definition of the word - notice that people don't tend to use synonyms for that one - it's always "gay" - which goes a bit further to show that it has a definition as "lame, poor, bad" etc as well as it's definitions of "homosexual" and "happy, care-free" etc.

But you're right. Not all members of society have thought about it long enough and are quite happy to get offended by it... so it's probably best not to use it. Just as it's probably best that people don't use the n-word - that can be considered to have different, more acceptable definitions within certain communities, but it is so offensive in others that it's very difficult to ever argue it's usage is warranted.

I don't think it is irrational to be offended by being identified with everything negative in society simply because of how you were born, and couldn't change(not that you should have to). There's a broad difference between a child calling someone out for being difference and someone who should know better. For forming so many arguments, I expect I'm dealing with adults, albeit very childish adults.

Should Gay people just GET OVER IT?
Should Black people just GET OVER IT?

More importantly... should they have to deal with being constantly compared to a pile of everything negative on the planet?

The difference is it doesn't hurt you to not use the term. It does potentially hurt them that you used it. And therein the problem lies. You might not "hurt" all gay people by calling everything gay. Some of these gay people might instead be more offended than hurt and beat your fucking ass. Some gay people might be hurt and internalize that hurt and one day kill themselves because they could not cope with being outcast amongst an ignorant society. The truth of the matter is that they shouldn't be any more insulated from insults and shit as the rest of society is... there shouldn't be a protection FROM speech. However, just because you can burn a flag in protest doesn't mean you should.

Just because your cross burning is protected speech on your own private property, doesn't mean you should. You will still be a piece of shit if you do it. You may have the right to do so, but your right to be trash doesn't take away the fact that you are trash. All I'm saying is that more than one gay person has told me that shit is highly offensive. I've demonstrated via publicly available means online that calling something gay when you mean something negative is pejorative. It's not open to debate. It's a pejorative term. Just like other bigoted terms, it doesn't matter your intent if someone finds it particularly offensive.

How about instead of me "lightening up" when I take offense to something questionable, YOU back down from the position that you hold so dear... are you somehow offended by my taking offense? Is taking offense somehow questionable?

I wasn't being borderline racist or homophobic, was I? Wasn't it someone else? Why should I be the one to lighten up? Nothing I said was offensive yea? Maybe the one who needs to lighten up is the one who brought the heavy language.

tr0tsky wrote:

You can't please everybody. To some it might be offensive to others it is not. I've never met a homosexual person in my life that is offended by that, and my sister is a lesbian.

Mate, I once saw a Jewish man walking down to Stamford Hill. He seemed alright.

That's why I now regularly refer to anything that isn't decent as "yo homie, that's so fucking Yiddish!" or "buy me a pint you dirty zionist hook-nosed money hoarding Israelite".

It's okay because I don't mean it to be insulting.

The difference is that those terms don't have alternative meanings.... you're definitely using their ethnicity in a negative way. If someone responds to the news that their rent is going up by saying "Oh, gay...." then they're not literally calling the rent increase gay.... for a start, rent increases can't even have sex with other rent increases. It's clearly a new definition... ambiguous at the very least.

I agree that enough people are likely to not see it in proper perspective and get offended by it to warrant not using it, but simply using it does not make someone homophobic.... just as using it in a positive way "Have yourself a merry little Christmas, make the Yuletide gay...." doesn't imply homosexuality.

Surface_Tension wrote:

Magma wrote:

Surface_Tension wrote:Nothing else matters. It's offensive. The End. it's a pejorative term.

This is the important thing. But then, frankly, getting offended is a pretty minor thing. As long as no malice was intended then a rational person should not take offense... unfortunately, we have to make allowances for those that aren't totally logical (especially when it comes to taking offense to things) and people that won't realise that when someone says "Oh, gay...." they're actually using an entirely different definition of the word - notice that people don't tend to use synonyms for that one - it's always "gay" - which goes a bit further to show that it has a definition as "lame, poor, bad" etc as well as it's definitions of "homosexual" and "happy, care-free" etc.

But you're right. Not all members of society have thought about it long enough and are quite happy to get offended by it... so it's probably best not to use it. Just as it's probably best that people don't use the n-word - that can be considered to have different, more acceptable definitions within certain communities, but it is so offensive in others that it's very difficult to ever argue it's usage is warranted.

I don't think it is irrational to be offended by being identified with everything negative in society simply because of how you were born, and couldn't change(not that you should have to). There's a broad difference between a child calling someone out for being difference and someone who should know better. For forming so many arguments, I expect I'm dealing with adults, albeit very childish adults.

Should Gay people just GET OVER IT?
Should Black people just GET OVER IT?

More importantly... should they have to deal with being constantly compared to a pile of everything negative on the planet?

The difference is it doesn't hurt you to not use the term. It does potentially hurt them that you used it. And therein the problem lies. You might not "hurt" all gay people by calling everything gay. Some of these gay people might instead be more offended than hurt and beat your fucking ass. Some gay people might be hurt and internalize that hurt and one day kill themselves because they could not cope with being outcast amongst an ignorant society. The truth of the matter is that they shouldn't be any more insulated from insults and shit as the rest of society is... there shouldn't be a protection FROM speech. However, just because you can burn a flag in protest doesn't mean you should.

Just because your cross burning is protected speech on your own private property, doesn't mean you should. You will still be a piece of shit if you do it. You may have the right to do so, but your right to be trash doesn't take away the fact that you are trash. All I'm saying is that more than one gay person has told me that shit is highly offensive. I've demonstrated via publicly available means online that calling something gay when you mean something negative is pejorative. It's not open to debate. It's a pejorative term. Just like other bigoted terms, it doesn't matter your intent if someone finds it particularly offensive.

How about instead of me "lightening up" when I take offense to something questionable, YOU back down from the position that you hold so dear... are you somehow offended by my taking offense? Is taking offense somehow questionable?

I wasn't being borderline racist or homophobic, was I? Wasn't it someone else? Why should I be the one to lighten up? Nothing I said was offensive yea? Maybe the one who needs to lighten up is the one who brought the heavy language.

I'm not convinced you actually read my post. I was agreeing that it's probably best for people not to use it by exactly the same logic as your 4th paragraph.

Calm down, it's only an internet debate about a word.

badger wrote:

Surface_Tension wrote:how is it that you can always make every post about my label somehow?

oh come on, you've mentioned your label either directly or indirectly four times on this page alone

anyway, i can't be bothered arguing with you

then do us all a favor and never bring my name to your lips again. I'm not worth it, neither are you. Have a nice life.

It all depends on the context. Um... try and think of a lame example, one of my mates is black and she calls me a pinky and I call her blacky, we also use tired stereotypes to diss each other - "you can't dance" etc. when we're ribbing each other. I wouldn't do that to a stranger, they'd (quite rightly) cave my head in. However we're acquainted with each other enough to make a joke of bigotry.

Can't remember who said it but it's quite apt, "to destroy the beast you must ridicule it". And that's exactly what SBC and others like him do. Persoanlly I'd rather live in a world where people get lynched and made a joke of for using 'isms' as a slur than to wrap the isms up in cotton wool, pretend they don't exist and censor them. That way you can ridicule those who use them.

And stfu up about your label. Cheers.

Surface_Tension wrote:then do us all a favor and never bring my name to your lips again. I'm not worth it, neither are you. Have a nice life.

oh for god's sake.... i didn't even say anything offensive to you. get a fucking grip

If a gay person kills themselves because they couldn't live with being "compared to negative things" when they AREN'T being compared to negative things, they didn't deserve to live.

Nobody is comparing them to negative things except the fucking people who take offense to it and see it as negative. It's being used as a slang word in its own with a completely different meaning. No relation to homosexuals whatsoever UNLESS you take it that way.

I'm not wrong for saying "thats gay" because I'm not even thinking of homosexuals when I say that. I'm using a different meaning of the word and in no way referring to homosexuals. The people who are in the wrong and getting offended are fucking offending themselves by seeing it as a stab at themselves.

If I said "thats a rainbow wearing fruity fuck" or "thats gayer than 4 cigarettes in a college dorm" then it's a different story, but I don't say things like that.

can Surface_Tension please fuck off? I swear, he's been a tnuc for a while now, right?

Firky wrote:It all depends on the context. Um... try and think of a lame example, one of my mates is black and she calls me a pinky and I call her blacky, we also use tired stereotypes to diss each other - "you can't dance" etc. when we're ribbing each other. I wouldn't do that to a stranger, they'd (quite rightly) cave my head in. However we're acquainted with each other enough to make a joke of bigotry.

Can't remember who said it but it's quite apt, "to destroy the beast you must ridicule it". And that's exactly what SBC and others like him do. Persoanlly I'd rather live in a world where people get lynched and made a joke of for using 'isms' as a slur than to wrap the isms up in cotton wool, pretend they don't exist and censor them. That way you can ridicule those who use them.

And stfu up about your label. Cheers.

YES. You don't crush bigotry by sweeping it under the carpet.... society MUST confront it, ridicule it and remove its power.

No he's not.

He shouldn't have had a go at Badger and got a bit worked up, but he's not being a tnuc. [I've just realised the irony in me saying that.]




I'm obviously only saying that because I agree with him. Also, his label is good and I be he makes tasty food AND is kind and has soft skin and EVERYTHING.

Surface_Tension wrote:

badger wrote:

Surface_Tension wrote:how is it that you can always make every post about my label somehow?

oh come on, you've mentioned your label either directly or indirectly four times on this page alone

anyway, i can't be bothered arguing with you

then do us all a favor and never bring my name to your lips again. I'm not worth it, neither are you. Have a nice life.

ooooh someones time of the month. Do gays have periods?

Diss04 wrote:this film was fucking funny

fuck you if you're offended by your own body parts, dickhead

Trust me ST this doesnt offend all homosexuals just the self righteous flag waving types like yourself.

One of my good mates loves being bummed by 60+yrs men. I dont take qualms with this, nor do any of our friends. What he does in his own life is his business not mine. He loved Bruno.

Furthermore if you cant see the point of Bruno and you had your judgemental stance before why go and watch it.
Your a massive fucking bell sniff, JOG ON.

You ever think that you are fucking offending gays by trying to act as if you're their "savior" and saying that they all take offense to it? You ever stop to think that maybe gays are sick of people acting like they have such sensitive feelings that get crushed whenever somebody says a single word?

Just as you're trying to prevent "offending" a few sad ass homosexuals who can't get a fucking grip on the world and grow the fuck up, you may be offending other gays by acting as if they all take offense to this and make it into a big deal. Ever think of that? Of course you didn't. Apparently you befriend a few sad, lonely gays that cry in the closet all day and from them you learn your life lessons. That's not my fault.

Get the fuck over it, it's not a big deal unless you make it into one. They're fucking words that have no relations to gays whatsoever, it's a different word.

Tell your friend to get a fucking grip to, if she gets highly offended and cries when somebody figures out they have to work late and says "thats gay" then I don't know how she's going to cope with the fucking world. Get the fuck over it, stop making it into a fucking pity case. All the emos who get pissed over that can go off themselves, don't need whiney fucks like them in the world anyways.

Magma wrote:As long as no malice was intended then a rational person should not take offense... unfortunately, we have to make allowances for those that aren't totally logical (especially when it comes to taking offense to things) and people that won't realise that when someone says "Oh, gay...." they're actually using an entirely different definition of the word - notice that people don't tend to use synonyms for that one - it's always "gay" - which goes a bit further to show that it has a definition as "lame, poor, bad" etc as well as it's definitions of "homosexual" and "happy, care-free" etc.

I read what you wrote... you said a rational person wouldn't take offense. I'd say a rational person could and has. Logical people can be offended as well, in fact, I think logic is on my side.

Imagine living in a world where you are a second class citizen, you don't have the same rights as other people just because you were born differently, your kind have been beaten, raped and murdered, always had to live in the dark scared to come into the light of day because you will either be disowned by your parents. You can't go out to a bar with the person you love without being called a homophobe. or any other number of slurs. Your life is always in danger, even in more liberal areas where you would hope you could feel safe. Religion turns you away. Your family and friends find out you're gay and turn you away. Society as a whole views you as basically a pile of shit and you know this because everything negative in the world... it's named after your lifestyle.

You don't take offense to this?

I understand that cultural ignorance is worldwide on this issue, and I guess I assumed that at least on this one you could reason with people and let them know how it makes you feel to watch friends and family go through that shit, kill themselves and have their parents not even hold a public funeral for their child because they are catholic, so their homosexual child who committed suicide is "in hell" so there is "no point" in having a funeral for the public. The family is so ashamed that they had a gay person among them this entire time.

When we live in a society where ANYONE is outcast because of their race, sex, ethnicity or gender identity, then we are ALL less free. That's just how I feel, but I'm not the only one. Ok, not all gay people will be offended. Dude if ONE gay person is offended, you're wrong. If you make someone feel like less of a human being and then when called out for it you make excuses instead of either shutting up or apologizing, you are pure fucking evil.

It goes beyond rational thinking when you are dealing with that. Rational was for me to point out that it was offensive. Irrational was to take that statement, think it through and then defend your actions in the face of overwhelming evidence that you're in the wrong.

We don't live in a rational world. Unfortunately, people have feelings and while I have never been an advocate of walking on eggshells, there is shit you don't do. Racial, Sexual, Gender identity... not up for discussion. If a black man tells me I have offended him with a remark he took to have racial under/overtones, it doesn't matter what I think. I'm wrong.

I know my friends, I know my family. I know they will take offense to seeing it. I know there are openly gay and closeted homosexuals who post on this forum who will take offense. And watching 10 pages of defending your right to be ignorant isn't going to help the cause with them.

Rational thinking might include something like "gee, someone was offended... maybe I should think that through/apologize/edit the post/whatever to remedy the situation"

But hey... what is RATIONAL anyway right?

tr0tsky wrote:No he's not.

He shouldn't have had a go at Badger and got a bit worked up, but he's not being a tnuc. [I've just realised the irony in me saying that.]




I'm obviously only saying that because I agree with him. Also, his label is good and I be he makes tasty food AND is kind and has soft skin and EVERYTHING.

no he really is being a tnuc. i was agreeing with him too over the whole gay comments thing

his label is great it's just a shame that most of its customers have to read the co-owner acting like an utter tit over the internets

S_T

Aftee wrote:You ever think that you are fucking offending gays by trying to act as if you're their "savior" and saying that they all take offense to it? You ever stop to think that maybe gays are sick of people acting like they have such sensitive feelings that get crushed whenever somebody says a single word?

Just as you're trying to prevent "offending" a few sad ass homosexuals who can't get a fucking grip on the world and grow the fuck up, you may be offending other gays by acting as if they all take offense to this and make it into a big deal. Ever think of that? Of course you didn't. Apparently you befriend a few sad, lonely gays that cry in the closet all day and from them you learn your life lessons. That's not my fault.

Get the fuck over it, it's not a big deal unless you make it into one. They're fucking words that have no relations to gays whatsoever, it's a different word.

Tell your friend to get a fucking grip to, if she gets highly offended and cries when somebody figures out they have to work late and says "thats gay" then I don't know how she's going to cope with the fucking world. Get the fuck over it, stop making it into a fucking pity case. All the emos who get pissed over that can go off themselves, don't need whiney fucks like them in the world anyways.

Keep running your fucking mouth dude. You live in a small town with a very small scene and I'm sure there are enough pictures on your social networking pages to find you in a crowd at the next party in your town. We're going to have a nice chat about manners and who the little crying closeted homosexual that needs to off themselves is. If I were you, I'd start considering moving somewhere a lot further from Indianapolis... China would be my recommendation.