Dubstepforum.com

Jumping on the best VSnares songs bandwagon:

1.Boiled Angel
2.Good Jungle
3.This Bitter Earth
4.Winnipeg Is Fucking Over
5.Öngyilkos Vasárnap

Piston wrote:

Soccer Mom wrote:

cardopusher wrote: breakcore is dead

HILARIOUS.

yeah much as i love cardos breakcore/hardcore and i do mean love i only heard of him in 2005 so i'm not sure what qualifies him to claim breakcore is dead..he kinda jumped on it tbh

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Cardopusher

snares has said it as well though...

no genre ever dies

It's not the genre as much as.. the scene sorta imploded on itself several years ago. Lotsa petty politics and lots of key figures doing everything in their power trying to keep breakcore tiny and only relevant to a few people. Like, some heads think that Wasted festival attracting 1000 people is equivalent of Epsilon composing jingles for McDonald's ads.

Here's a thread on the C8 forums started by Christoph Fringeli (dude behind Praxis Records) with a bunch of breakcore heavyweights (LFO Demon, Dev/Null, Hecate, Bong-Ra and God knows who else) discussing the scene back in 2005. Other than a few voices of reason (mostly Bong-Ra who's more or less saying to chill the fuck out and just listen to the tunes) it's lost of idealism and bullcrap politics that have only little to do with the music[/url]

well said, i used to love breakcore a few years ago, but even then it was coming to an end.. even if there were no petty politics, it just got shit musically.

Abs wrote:well said, i used to love breakcore a few years ago, but even then it was coming to an end.. even if there were no petty politics, it just got shit musically.

Not really, there's still good shit all over place. These past few years it's gotten its biggest creative boost since 2001.

I think my favorite breakcore releases are from the last 4 years. Especially the shit Benn Jordan released. He put a lot more emphasis on songwriting than most breakcore producers. The Lawn Wake series, the stuff on Kirlian Selections, Lucid Bass III, his stuff as Dr. Lefty (best 'raggacore' ever, I still stand behind saying that 'Ah Shwe Bah' is the best song I've ever heard) and so on. Aaron Spectre's relevant as hell, 'Grist' was a great album and one of the best breakcore full lengths.

The biggest problem with breakcore perhaps that it's losing a lot of 'core' in favor of more 'break'. I like how melodic it's gotten these past few years, but I'd like more heavy 909s.

Abs wrote:well said, i used to love breakcore a few years ago, but even then it was coming to an end.. even if there were no petty politics, it just got shit musically.

I followed it from 1999 onwards

it was never meant to be good musically

of course many records were towards the end but it was always meant to be a trashy noize ala punk...

szamar madar & hajnal are great musically but early snares tunes like 'i'm a fucking idiot' weren't but they great...

and ebola's tunes like 'fried piss' were more noize based than 'musical'

Genevieve wrote:

Abs wrote:well said, i used to love breakcore a few years ago, but even then it was coming to an end.. even if there were no petty politics, it just got shit musically.

Not really, there's still good shit all over place. These past few years it's gotten its biggest creative boost since 2001.

I think my favorite breakcore releases are from the last 4 years. Especially the shit Benn Jordan released. He put a lot more emphasis on songwriting than most breakcore producers. The Lawn Wake series, the stuff on Kirlian Selections, Lucid Bass III, his stuff as Dr. Lefty (best 'raggacore' ever, I still stand behind saying that 'Ah Shwe Bah' is the best song I've ever heard) and so on. Aaron Spectre's relevant as hell, 'Grist' was a great album and one of the best breakcore full lengths.

The biggest problem with breakcore perhaps that it's losing a lot of 'core' in favor of more 'break'. I like how melodic it's gotten these past few years, but I'd like more heavy 909s.

aaron spectre is amazing....haven't heard a bad tune from him...

and yeah that's precisely the point...it got more musical...

skelechairs (Vsnares remix) is about as musical as setting yourself on fire

Piston wrote:

Abs wrote:well said, i used to love breakcore a few years ago, but even then it was coming to an end.. even if there were no petty politics, it just got shit musically.

I followed it from 1999 onwards

it was never meant to be good musically

of course many records were towards the end but it was always meant to be a trashy noize ala punk...

szamar madar & hajnal are great musically but early snares tunes like 'i'm a fucking idiot' weren't but they great...

and ebola's tunes like 'fried piss' were more noize based than 'musical'

Well, that's basically the problem with breakcore. 'It's supposed to be X'. I know you're not saying that yourself, but any attitude of 'music is supposed to be like this and this' completely misses the point. It's part of what ruins music in the long run because like culture, music changes with time as music is largely a product of the culture that spawns it. The world as a whole has changed a lot since 1996 and the audience of breakcore has gotten bigger, lots of these heads love intricate jungle drums or melodies from more chilled out records. To say that those things do not have a place in breakcore because allllll those years ago breakcore was simply the electronic variant of Anal tnuc seems shortsighted and people that stick to those principles tend to come across as old farts who are unwilling to accept any innovation that happened after their youth.

It's the big mindfuck that is breakcore elitism. Those old heads claim to love genre ambiguity and taking a genre into new directions creatively, but as soon as a certain direction gains more commercial acclaim, all this 'change' is a bad thing.

Genevieve wrote:

Piston wrote:

Abs wrote:well said, i used to love breakcore a few years ago, but even then it was coming to an end.. even if there were no petty politics, it just got shit musically.

I followed it from 1999 onwards

it was never meant to be good musically

of course many records were towards the end but it was always meant to be a trashy noize ala punk...

szamar madar & hajnal are great musically but early snares tunes like 'i'm a fucking idiot' weren't but they great...

and ebola's tunes like 'fried piss' were more noize based than 'musical'

Well, that's basically the problem with breakcore. 'It's supposed to be X'. I know you're not saying that yourself, but any attitude of 'music is supposed to be like this and this' completely misses the point. It's part of what ruins music in the long run because like culture, music changes with time as music is largely a product of the culture that spawns it. The world as a whole has changed a lot since 1996 and the audience of breakcore has gotten bigger, lots of these heads love intricate jungle drums or melodies from more chilled out records. To say that those things do not have a place in breakcore because allllll those years ago breakcore was simply the electronic variant of Anal tnuc seems shortsighted and people that stick to those principles tend to come across as old farts who are unwilling to accept any innovation that happened after their youth.

It's the big mindfuck that is breakcore elitism. Those old heads claim to love genre ambiguity and taking a genre into new directions creatively, but as soon as a certain direction gains more commercial acclaim, all this 'change' is a bad thing.

totally agree...but i do still love the earlier stuff...christophe de babalon, eiterherd was amazing as well,,,

thing is i really love all music...folk, breakcore, d&b, dubstep, reggae, breakbeat, ojos de brujo, indie rock, post rock, classical, hip-hop, gabber etc etc etc so to me putting a genre into a box isn't a limiting process rather identifying a sound...

Piston wrote:

Abs wrote:well said, i used to love breakcore a few years ago, but even then it was coming to an end.. even if there were no petty politics, it just got shit musically.

I followed it from 1999 onwards

it was never meant to be good musically

of course many records were towards the end but it was always meant to be a trashy noize ala punk...

szamar madar & hajnal are great musically but early snares tunes like 'i'm a fucking idiot' weren't but they great...

and ebola's tunes like 'fried piss' were more noize based than 'musical'

i didn't mean musically in terms of intricate melodies or anythig that resembles normal music, i just meant regardless of whatever politics going on in the scene were.. the music got boring and tiresome.

sorry for the misunderstanding, i agree with what you're saying!

profound wrote:

That album is

Yep.

Genevieve wrote:.Here's a thread on the C8 forums started by Christoph Fringeli (dude behind Praxis Records) with a bunch of breakcore heavyweights (LFO Demon, Dev/Null, Hecate, Bong-Ra and God knows who else) discussing the scene back in 2005. Other than a few voices of reason (mostly Bong-Ra who's more or less saying to chill the fuck out and just listen to the tunes) it's lost of idealism and bullcrap politics that have only little to do with the music[/url]

"idealism and bullcrap politics"

That was a great article and it was totally accurate. You probably don't like to think breakcore has existed since before V Snares was signed to planet mu, but it has since about 95/96. In fact,you used to get a lot of good music then, not just a tidal wave of fifth rate V Snares and DJ Scud rip offs.
Breakcore is dead because all the shit producers will make whatever is trendy. Good riddance to them I say.

Saxenhammer wrote:

Genevieve wrote:.Here's a thread on the C8 forums started by Christoph Fringeli (dude behind Praxis Records) with a bunch of breakcore heavyweights (LFO Demon, Dev/Null, Hecate, Bong-Ra and God knows who else) discussing the scene back in 2005. Other than a few voices of reason (mostly Bong-Ra who's more or less saying to chill the fuck out and just listen to the tunes) it's lost of idealism and bullcrap politics that have only little to do with the music[/url]

"idealism and bullcrap politics"

That was a great article and it was totally accurate. You probably don't like to think breakcore has existed since before V Snares was signed to planet mu, but it has since about 95/96. In fact,you used to get a lot of good music then, not just a tidal wave of fifth rate V Snares and DJ Scud rip offs.
Breakcore is dead because all the shit producers will make whatever is trendy. Good riddance to them I say.

Most of the breakcore I listen to is from Bloody Fist, Ambush and Praxis and I fucking said it myself that the world has changed since 1996 earlier in this thread (how the fuck does that equate to me thinking Snares started it all, are you dense?), doesn't mean I have to fall for the belated teenage idealism and being completely incapable of separating the music from the musician. Yeah, the Venetian Snares clones are annoying. Give me one good reason how the Praxis clones are any better.

'Person has different views from me, therefore, he must lack knowledge somewhere'. I didn't give a fuck about Snares for years after I got into breakcore and he's one of the first I heard. Keep your assumptions to yourself and try to discuss things, that way you won't look as painfully threatened and insecure about your own beliefs.

Piston wrote:

Genevieve wrote:

Piston wrote:

Abs wrote:well said, i used to love breakcore a few years ago, but even then it was coming to an end.. even if there were no petty politics, it just got shit musically.

I followed it from 1999 onwards

it was never meant to be good musically

of course many records were towards the end but it was always meant to be a trashy noize ala punk...

szamar madar & hajnal are great musically but early snares tunes like 'i'm a fucking idiot' weren't but they great...

and ebola's tunes like 'fried piss' were more noize based than 'musical'

Well, that's basically the problem with breakcore. 'It's supposed to be X'. I know you're not saying that yourself, but any attitude of 'music is supposed to be like this and this' completely misses the point. It's part of what ruins music in the long run because like culture, music changes with time as music is largely a product of the culture that spawns it. The world as a whole has changed a lot since 1996 and the audience of breakcore has gotten bigger, lots of these heads love intricate jungle drums or melodies from more chilled out records. To say that those things do not have a place in breakcore because allllll those years ago breakcore was simply the electronic variant of Anal tnuc seems shortsighted and people that stick to those principles tend to come across as old farts who are unwilling to accept any innovation that happened after their youth.

It's the big mindfuck that is breakcore elitism. Those old heads claim to love genre ambiguity and taking a genre into new directions creatively, but as soon as a certain direction gains more commercial acclaim, all this 'change' is a bad thing.

totally agree...but i do still love the earlier stuff...christophe de babalon, eiterherd was amazing as well,,,

thing is i really love all music...folk, breakcore, d&b, dubstep, reggae, breakbeat, ojos de brujo, indie rock, post rock, classical, hip-hop, gabber etc etc etc so to me putting a genre into a box isn't a limiting process rather identifying a sound...

I'll be the first to champion Zhark, Bloody Fist, Ambush and Praxis. I've got no problem with that shit at all. I have more problems with the conservative attitude that all breakcore needs to be written according to Praxis' rulebook. I'll be the first to stick-up for those labels and their releases. But I'll also be the first to say that breakcore can move into more melodic territories, that breakcore doesn't have to be shitnoise to be good and that it's completely unhealthy to the scene to wanna keep it centered around the primary European labels and actively try to keep it small and to put so much focus on the politics and the musician rather than the music.

Piston wrote:

Soccer Mom wrote:

cardopusher wrote: breakcore is dead

HILARIOUS.

yeah much as i love cardos breakcore/hardcore and i do mean love i only heard of him in 2005 so i'm not sure what qualifies him to claim breakcore is dead..he kinda jumped on it tbh

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Cardopusher

snares has said it as well though...

no genre ever dies

yes, you´re right, probably im not the "big" man to say this, but right now, at least for me, it´s kinda boring. i haven´t been probably into this "scene" since late 90´s or early 2000´s but basically i live doing/playing music and from what i have seen over the past 3 years yes, it´s dead. once again, it´s just my opinion. as u said i jumped and now im out.

cardopusher wrote:

Piston wrote:

Soccer Mom wrote:

cardopusher wrote: breakcore is dead

HILARIOUS.

yeah much as i love cardos breakcore/hardcore and i do mean love i only heard of him in 2005 so i'm not sure what qualifies him to claim breakcore is dead..he kinda jumped on it tbh

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Cardopusher

snares has said it as well though...

no genre ever dies

yes, you´re right, probably im not the "big" man to say this, but right now, at least for me, it´s kinda boring. i haven´t been probably into this "scene" since late 90´s or early 2000´s but basically i live doing/playing music and from what i have seen over the past 3 years yes, it´s dead. once again, it´s just my opinion. as u said i jumped and now im out.

bit of a shame though man...i do like your dubstep but loved your mentalist stuff...parrilla is sick of course but when that japanese hardcore remix come on my ipod i get more excited..

so no chance of anything similar again?

So long as someone is making it or listening to it, it's not dead. Who cares if a scene exists or not, fuck a scene, no one ever expected to get rich making breakcore

...and mad love to Aaron, I may not dig his newer gear so much, but his stuff changed the game forever, back in the late 90s snares was like crack, just couldn't get enough

thanks for reminding me about moonglow

spooKs wrote:thanks for reminding me about moonglow

i actually preferred this bitter earth on the b side

CR1TT3R wrote:So long as someone is making it or listening to it, it's not dead. Who cares if a scene exists or not, fuck a scene, no one ever expected to get rich making breakcore

Scenes are annoying, elitist collectives. But they get the job done when it comes to distribution and organizing events.

Piston wrote:

spooKs wrote:thanks for reminding me about moonglow

i actually preferred this bitter earth on the b side

Word up =0

Piston wrote:

spooKs wrote:thanks for reminding me about moonglow

i actually preferred this bitter earth on the b side

IMO, Badminton blows that 7 out of the water...