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Yea, I use Ableton as well now and am thinking about switching to Logic, but I thought the guy who asked the question was using Reason only

no doubt... i also overlooked the fact garage band only comes w/ macs, and i assumed they had it as a last resort, stripped down daw. if OP does have it, its definitely capable if you drag reason exports in to it and beef it up that way.

no eq on my winamp n same problem playing with windows media player/in car/serato etc.

thanks a lot for writing all those values out that musta taken ages! but the issue is when i export it. if i play it in reason it sounds fine (mastered or unmastered) but its only when i Export the track that I seem to lose clarity/quality. yep im only using reason, bit gutted if this cant b fixed

Just for the Record, can you list some Reasons you're against using it for mixing without Recycling old arguements?

EDIT: Sry, saw the opportunity and had to take it

ammo wrote:no eq on my winamp n same problem playing with windows media player/in car/serato etc.

thanks a lot for writing all those values out that musta taken ages! but the issue is when i export it. if i play it in reason it sounds fine (mastered or unmastered) but its only when i Export the track that I seem to lose clarity/quality. yep im only using reason, bit gutted if this cant b fixed

make sure you're not in the reds on any mixer channel (clipping) inside the project it can sound "ok" sometimes, but as soon as you export, quality will degrade.

terrible1fi wrote:

ammo wrote:no eq on my winamp n same problem playing with windows media player/in car/serato etc.

thanks a lot for writing all those values out that musta taken ages! but the issue is when i export it. if i play it in reason it sounds fine (mastered or unmastered) but its only when i Export the track that I seem to lose clarity/quality. yep im only using reason, bit gutted if this cant b fixed

make sure you're not in the reds on any mixer channel (clipping) inside the project it can sound "ok" sometimes, but as soon as you export, quality will degrade.

yeh man not on the reds on anything. thinking it might be cos I dont have a decent soundcard but not sure if that will affect this?

lol @ futures untold, i do love a good pun

did you try dither, and changing the bit rate? i'm stumped.

Check your preferences and make sure you export it on the highest quality?
Not sure for now, will have a look at it tomorrow.

Oh and it did take ages

Using dither/different bit rates etc doesn't make a difference. I have my latency really high (on like 1988 or something, all the way to the right).

Thanks for the effort guys!

Edit: Lol yeh the tune took ages!

ammo wrote:Was wondering if anyone can help

When I export a tune in Reason it sounds much less clear than it did in the program (especially the bass). Even with no mastering etc (with mastering it sounds MUCH worse). Literally if I play the tune in reason it sounds fine, but on exporting and immediately playing the tune on the same headphones/speakers in winamp it sounds unclear n muddy etc. havnt bought a soundcard, not sure if that might be it?

thanks!

When you bounced the track, was Reason the only application open in your OS? (No internet browser, no media players and no audio apps etc.)

Does the exported tune sound crap when the only application open is Winamp?

If the problem persists, perhaps, raise a ticket with Propellerheads Tech Support? (Although I bet the soundcard is at fault, because Reason is legendary for its rock solid stability and performance.)

Have you tried exporting the project on another computer with a different soundcard? (If you PM me a self contained project, I'll try bouncing it for you.)

futures_untold wrote:

ammo wrote:Was wondering if anyone can help

When I export a tune in Reason it sounds much less clear than it did in the program (especially the bass). Even with no mastering etc (with mastering it sounds MUCH worse). Literally if I play the tune in reason it sounds fine, but on exporting and immediately playing the tune on the same headphones/speakers in winamp it sounds unclear n muddy etc. havnt bought a soundcard, not sure if that might be it?

thanks!

When you bounced the track, was Reason the only application open in your OS? (No internet browser, no media players and no audio apps etc.)

Does the exported tune sound crap when the only application open is Winamp?

If the problem persists, perhaps, raise a ticket with Propellerheads Tech Support? (Although I bet the soundcard is at fault, because Reason is legendary for its rock solid stability and performance.)

Have you tried exporting the project on another computer with a different soundcard? (If you PM me a self contained project, I'll try bouncing it for you.)

Yeah Reason is the only application open (no internet/norton etc either) tried playin it in winamp, windows media n itunes but still doesnt sound right. I put it on my iphone though and it does sound fine playing from that, so I assume it's my laptop rather than reason etc, although other songs tend to sound fine on my laptop

raised it with propellerhead who say its probably the soundcard, I thought I'd see if there's anything else I could do n now it seems strange it plays ok from iphone. i'm hangin on for serato/scratchlive/sl3 to become asio compatible as its in development, rather than forkin out on another soundcard if possible.

thanks a lot for the offer man, i might give that a try

Right, got two quick questions.

Firstly, when making a sub in reason, am using the maelstrom, and am using 2 sine waves on the same octave and adjusting the ADSR as needed. I've always used 2 sines on a sub at the same octave instead of one as one didn't sound meaty enough. Now... would that cause a problem? Are there any reasons to support not to use 2 sine waves, any mixing or mastering issues in relation to this? I have not found any so for, but it's just one day i got up an questioned if whether using 2 sines waves on the same octave would cause any problems.

Secondly, what channels are people keeping mono and what channels are you keeping stereo, i've always been a bit confused on this topic. I keep things like kick ,sub and clap/snare always mono ( and i do this by only allowing one cable to entering into the 14.1 mixer instead on both which would make it mono, right ?)

Additionally, i've been reading today that panning is bad? It was very brief research i was doing so by far means i do not have complete comprehension on this, but reading around some people seem to think panning is bad, cuz it sounds like crap on mono

I really never got this mono v stereo hype? Can someone enlighten me please. I know your meant to check your mix downs in mono and see if they sound good because places like club and radio are mono, but they some argue when you readjust things to make it sounds nice in mono it sounds crap in stereo..

Q1. Assuming that both sine waves are perfectly in phase, the only effect is to double the volume of the Malstroms output. If either of the sines were out of phase, then you'd hear a beating effect which makes the sound 'wobble' as the misaligned phase causes phase cancellation. It is a useful technique and can be similarly achieved by altering the cents control on one oscillator slightly. Changing the pitch using the cent control doesn't change the phase start position (something some synths can do), it simply shortens or lengthens the wavelength slightly with the effect that the phase of one osc is slightly different to the phase of the second sc.

Q2. anything under 100Hz you may want to keep mono due to the kinds of systems the tune may be played back upon, eg club rig or old mobile phone speaker.

Q3. I would stick with mono if your intended audience is in a club, whereas I'd go with stereo (and panning) if my audience was sitting in their bedroom listening to internet radio or their mp3 player.

futures_untold wrote:Q1. Assuming that both sine waves are perfectly in phase, the only effect is to double the volume of the Malstroms output. If either of the sines were out of phase, then you'd hear a beating effect which makes the sound 'wobble' as the misaligned phase causes phase cancellation. It is a useful technique and can be similarly achieved by altering the cents control on one oscillator slightly. Changing the pitch using the cent control doesn't change the phase start position (something some synths can do), it simply shortens or lengthens the wavelength slightly with the effect that the phase of one osc is slightly different to the phase of the second sc.

Q2. anything under 100Hz you may want to keep mono due to the kinds of systems the tune may be played back upon, eg club rig or old mobile phone speaker.

Q3. I would stick with mono if your intended audience is in a club, whereas I'd go with stereo (and panning) if my audience was sitting in their bedroom listening to internet radio or their mp3 player.

1. Oddly enough, it does not double the volume of the output. Sure if i use one instead of two, the level is a few db lower but when i compress it to beef it up it's almost at the same level as two sine waves... So there's not problem with using 2 on the same octave instead of one...? (the tune in my sig was made this way and it seems not to be a issue )

2. Indeed, i already do that. What about the lush things like pads and arp's..? Make them mono and they sound like crap (loses the wide open vibe), try pan a stereo signal well that's big mono isnt it. So instead i pan the left and right channels in the comb mixer itself and keep this channel that is going up into the main mixer centre.

3. Ok thanks you FU, cheers buddy (anymore of your superior knowledge in this area will be greatly appericated )

nitz wrote:Using 2 sines waves on the same octave would cause any problems.

It won't cause any problems if you're mixing each instrument/element of the track properly using the master mixer to avoid clipping.

You mention using a compressor to control the output volume of the Malstrom, so it sounds like you are already managing your mix levels in a manner adequate to your production aims.

nitz wrote:Secondly, what channels are people keeping mono and what channels are you keeping stereo, i've always been a bit confused on this topic. I keep things like kick ,sub and clap/snare always mono ( and i do this by only allowing one cable to entering into the 14.1 mixer instead on both which would make it mono, right ?)

I keep all sound elements above 100Hz stereo, eg leads, pads, instruments and precussion.

Refer to Reasons built in manual to answer your query regarding the 14:1 mixer and mono operation.

nitz wrote:Is panning is bad? A. Some people seem to think panning is bad cuz it sounds like crap on mono.

There is no right or wrong answer to your question about stereo usage and panning, simply methods for working within the constraints of the playback medium you're targeting. For the purposes of a cinema soundtrack, the producer would be mixing using multiple sound sources in a panoramic audiofield which we commonly call 'surround sound'. Placing a sound in a audiofield (panning) is not bad, it is simply constrained somewhat by the producers intended playback medium.

nitz wrote:Mono vs stereo mixing

I've started a new thread for you to follow. Hopefully some more knowledgeable people will be able to shed light on the debate.

nitz wrote:

futures_untold wrote:Q1. Assuming that both sine waves are perfectly in phase, the only effect is to double the volume of the Malstroms output. If either of the sines were out of phase, then you'd hear a beating effect which makes the sound 'wobble' as the misaligned phase causes phase cancellation. It is a useful technique and can be similarly achieved by altering the cents control on one oscillator slightly. Changing the pitch using the cent control doesn't change the phase start position (something some synths can do), it simply shortens or lengthens the wavelength slightly with the effect that the phase of one osc is slightly different to the phase of the second sc.

Q2. anything under 100Hz you may want to keep mono due to the kinds of systems the tune may be played back upon, eg club rig or old mobile phone speaker.

Q3. I would stick with mono if your intended audience is in a club, whereas I'd go with stereo (and panning) if my audience was sitting in their bedroom listening to internet radio or their mp3 player.

1. Oddly enough, it does not double the volume of the output. Sure if i use one instead of two, the level is a few db lower but when i compress it to beef it up it's almost at the same level as two sine waves... So there's not problem with using 2 on the same octave instead of one...? (the tune in my sig was made this way and it seems not to be a issue )

Yes it does. Remember that -6dB is half the headroom, -12dB a quarter of the headroom, -18dB an eight of the headroom etc. The volume halfs or doubles each 6dB, depending if you go up or down the scale.

So with this in mind, if you set both osc's at the same volume, each at -18dB, if one is disabled it will peak at ofcourse -18dB, if you enable the 2nd it will peak at -12dB, which is twice as much (1/8 + 1/8 = 1/4). Set each at -12dB, together they will be -6dB (1/4 + 1/4 = 1/2). Set each at -6dB, together they will be 0dB (1/2 + 1/2 = 1)

Project EX wrote:

nitz wrote:

futures_untold wrote:Q1. Assuming that both sine waves are perfectly in phase, the only effect is to double the volume of the Malstroms output. If either of the sines were out of phase, then you'd hear a beating effect which makes the sound 'wobble' as the misaligned phase causes phase cancellation. It is a useful technique and can be similarly achieved by altering the cents control on one oscillator slightly. Changing the pitch using the cent control doesn't change the phase start position (something some synths can do), it simply shortens or lengthens the wavelength slightly with the effect that the phase of one osc is slightly different to the phase of the second sc.

Q2. anything under 100Hz you may want to keep mono due to the kinds of systems the tune may be played back upon, eg club rig or old mobile phone speaker.

Q3. I would stick with mono if your intended audience is in a club, whereas I'd go with stereo (and panning) if my audience was sitting in their bedroom listening to internet radio or their mp3 player.

1. Oddly enough, it does not double the volume of the output. Sure if i use one instead of two, the level is a few db lower but when i compress it to beef it up it's almost at the same level as two sine waves... So there's not problem with using 2 on the same octave instead of one...? (the tune in my sig was made this way and it seems not to be a issue )

Yes it does. Remember that -6dB is half the headroom, -12dB a quarter of the headroom, -18dB an eight of the headroom etc. The volume halfs or doubles each 6dB, depending if you go up or down the scale.

So with this in mind, if you set both osc's at the same volume, each at -18dB, if one is disabled it will peak at ofcourse -18dB, if you enable the 2nd it will peak at -12dB, which is twice as much (1/8 + 1/8 = 1/4). Set each at -12dB, together they will be -6dB (1/4 + 1/4 = 1/2). Set each at -6dB, together they will be 0dB (1/2 + 1/2 = 1)

Thanks for clearing that up for us. Tbh I wasn't sure of the maths/facts, so I didn't respond to that point lol.

No point, wasn't entirely sure myself, but tested it with the malstrom and it its all good.

futures_untold wrote:

nitz wrote:Using 2 sines waves on the same octave would cause any problems.

It won't cause any problems if you're mixing each instrument/element of the track properly using the master mixer to avoid clipping.

You mention using a compressor to control the output volume of the Malstrom, so it sounds like you are already managing your mix levels in a manner adequate to your production aims.

nitz wrote:Secondly, what channels are people keeping mono and what channels are you keeping stereo, i've always been a bit confused on this topic. I keep things like kick ,sub and clap/snare always mono ( and i do this by only allowing one cable to entering into the 14.1 mixer instead on both which would make it mono, right ?)

I keep all sound elements above 100Hz stereo, eg leads, pads, instruments and precussion.

Refer to Reasons built in manual to answer your query regarding the 14:1 mixer and mono operation.

nitz wrote:Is panning is bad? A. Some people seem to think panning is bad cuz it sounds like crap on mono.

There is no right or wrong answer to your question about stereo usage and panning, simply methods for working within the constraints of the playback medium you're targeting. For the purposes of a cinema soundtrack, the producer would be mixing using multiple sound sources in a panoramic audiofield which we commonly call 'surround sound'. Placing a sound in a audiofield (panning) is not bad, it is simply constrained somewhat by the producers intended playback medium.

nitz wrote:Mono vs stereo mixing

I've started a new thread for you to follow. Hopefully some more knowledgeable people will be able to shed light on the debate.

Thanks, this has cleared a few things up..!

futures_untold wrote:

Project EX wrote:

nitz wrote:

futures_untold wrote:Q1. Assuming that both sine waves are perfectly in phase, the only effect is to double the volume of the Malstroms output. If either of the sines were out of phase, then you'd hear a beating effect which makes the sound 'wobble' as the misaligned phase causes phase cancellation. It is a useful technique and can be similarly achieved by altering the cents control on one oscillator slightly. Changing the pitch using the cent control doesn't change the phase start position (something some synths can do), it simply shortens or lengthens the wavelength slightly with the effect that the phase of one osc is slightly different to the phase of the second sc.

Q2. anything under 100Hz you may want to keep mono due to the kinds of systems the tune may be played back upon, eg club rig or old mobile phone speaker.

Q3. I would stick with mono if your intended audience is in a club, whereas I'd go with stereo (and panning) if my audience was sitting in their bedroom listening to internet radio or their mp3 player.

1. Oddly enough, it does not double the volume of the output. Sure if i use one instead of two, the level is a few db lower but when i compress it to beef it up it's almost at the same level as two sine waves... So there's not problem with using 2 on the same octave instead of one...? (the tune in my sig was made this way and it seems not to be a issue )

Yes it does. Remember that -6dB is half the headroom, -12dB a quarter of the headroom, -18dB an eight of the headroom etc. The volume halfs or doubles each 6dB, depending if you go up or down the scale.

So with this in mind, if you set both osc's at the same volume, each at -18dB, if one is disabled it will peak at ofcourse -18dB, if you enable the 2nd it will peak at -12dB, which is twice as much (1/8 + 1/8 = 1/4). Set each at -12dB, together they will be -6dB (1/4 + 1/4 = 1/2). Set each at -6dB, together they will be 0dB (1/2 + 1/2 = 1)

Thanks for clearing that up for us. Tbh I wasn't sure of the maths/facts, so I didn't respond to that point lol.

Yahh i roughly work that out from using the maximizer, as this shows the db output of any given audio source, thanks