Dubstepforum.com

There's a decent paper discussing the economics of immigration controls of which I'm personally in favour of abolition.

http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.25.3.83

In the case of the EU obviously membership is contingent on accepting the freedom of movement of citizens of EU member states. It's a price we accept for EU membership, UKIP wishes to leave, fine that's their position and they are free to campaign on it, to suggest that there would be no impact to the markets we have access to is entirely wrong and was contended by OP.

With regard to the diffusion of indigenous cultures I think the same argument can be made, if a culture is unable to adapt to change then it's shit.

^ I pretty much said this earlier in the topic, was really surprised Jaydot didn't respond

Being in the EU you can freely get investment, capital, imports/exports or labour.. thats globalisation. Whether you agree with globalisation or not isn't the debate, happily taking the advantages of free moving capital, investment and imports/exports but refusing free moving labour because you're a bigot is the debate.

Stopping immigration is as dumb as saying the whole country has to be completely self sustainable.. you can use no raw materials outside the UK, no investment or foreign capital, no food or other commodities imported. We'd pretty much have no roofs over our heads and no food to eat, its barbaric to even consider moving towards that as a society but because of acceptable racist bigotry its fine to think in a similar way about humans/labour.

And if people are gunna take the stance "humans are different to money and materials", yep they are.. you can destroy lives refusing them from bettering themselves.

Theres literally no reason other than personal bigotry and xenophobia for anybody to think that all markets should be a completely hayekian free market but labour be based on north korea... or worse.

wirez wrote:

jesslem wrote:You're at least 11% racist tbh.
Think you also missed my underlying point. My point was what's been stated later on in the thread by others. Nationality is merely a coincidence of modern existence. Nobody deserves their nationality, so it doesn't make a lot of purely logical sense to say that they deserve to benefit from having it. If you aren't able to keep up with the expectations of society, you should expect to be left behind. Which Jaydot, or his peers at least, doesn't seem capable of doing. Also, failure to keep up is failure to integrate, so Jaydot's point is beyond irrelevant tbh.

Also,

wirez wrote:until the day (post-apocalypse) that is possible, there needs to be an element of resilience against who is entitled to live where.

I'm not sure if that's what you meant to say but if it was, I have no idea why you think you're disagreeing with me tbh.

I didn't intend to indicate I was disagreeing with you actually... You seem to take things quite personally, you may wish to address that as a character flaw. I recommend a bit of Eckhart Tolle.

I argue quite aggressively, not ashamed of it though since it's the only thing I seem to be remotely capable of doing tbh. That being said, in controverting what I'd said based on what you took to be my underlying argument you indicated disagreement.
That being said, note both parts of my signature and understand that I often argue here to pass the time of what is otherwise a pretty mundane existence
It's all love at the end of the day.

Let's wrap this thread up with a good ol' Zombie Farage

thank u for gracing us all w/ ur opinion of every post in this thread wires

Thanks for yours Ray.

wirez wrote:

jesslem wrote:I actually have too much face in the worldwide dubstep community

Who are you?

Haha that's what I was like when I seen that.

This is England.


Very Jaydot statements in this video lol.

Jaydot's a ginger old lady from West Yorkshire imo.

wirez wrote:

jaydot wrote:he's low skilled and will happily take a "blue collar" job such as factory work, but he's having trouble finding one because all the Poles have them.

Sounds a bit 80's to me. IF he's willing to work, he will find work. Sales & customer service Call centres with any reputation and chance of sustainability prefer British workers as a rule. If they're illiterate they could help build more call centres and offices if that fails there'll be more job centres opening taking on security guards for pin heads who only need a small bit of cheap experience.

Call Centre work

Muncey wrote:^ I pretty much said this earlier in the topic, was really surprised Jaydot didn't respond

Being in the EU you can freely get investment, capital, imports/exports or labour.. thats globalisation. Whether you agree with globalisation or not isn't the debate, happily taking the advantages of free moving capital, investment and imports/exports but refusing free moving labour because you're a bigot is the debate.

Stopping immigration is as dumb as saying the whole country has to be completely self sustainable.. you can use no raw materials outside the UK, no investment or foreign capital, no food or other commodities imported. We'd pretty much have no roofs over our heads and no food to eat, its barbaric to even consider moving towards that as a society but because of acceptable racist bigotry its fine to think in a similar way about humans/labour.

And if people are gunna take the stance "humans are different to money and materials", yep they are.. you can destroy lives refusing them from bettering themselves.

Theres literally no reason other than personal bigotry and xenophobia for anybody to think that all markets should be a completely hayekian free market but labour be based on north korea... or worse.

Stopping immigration would be downright silly, filtering it would be sensible.

jesslem wrote: I don't think there's much of a difference between being lazy and being demotivated, at least not a measurable one tbh.
And the threads you choose to post in are irrelevant because sitting here and rattling on with strangers is fundamentally unproductive. This exchange of all things is proof of the fact that you've been softened by a cushy English lifestyle tbh, how else could you justify such a blatant waste of time? I doubt you don't have more important things to do, but you still cotch here on a regular basis, the biggest contribution you can make from here is what we call slacktivism.
But yeah, don't worry, everyone in the world is the same, and any other person who lived your life would have to behave the same way. So really what I'm saying isn't that you're necessarily worse than other people, just that you shouldn't inflate your self perception because you're the same. And by saying that "english people aren't lazy" etc. you're implying that other people are, and who could you say genuinely is lazy if we're all the same? It's just a shit thing to say imo.

You ever worked for two months in a row for no pay in a stupidly hard job that even the manager and head chef were shocked at how hard it was when they tried it for a day? That's DEMOTIVATION. Being lazy is having no decent reason to not do it and then still choose not to. How can I be softened by a 'cushy English' lifestyle when I was doing 12 hours a day at 14 including school? Used to get high all weekend just to chill the fuck out, my parents are fucking speng for basically making me do that for about two quid an hour, fucking waste of life. Studying 12 hours a day mostly at university was more useful (even though my parents thought I should have a part-time job to make up for the complete lack of money they were giving), working holidays free in a mental health charity office researching information to help the local services. I also went to clubs, did a language course, joined a professional organisation, was the student academic rep for the organisation and my university cohort at the same time - all that shit was cheap or free so it was easy to do with my loan. Loads of other students had the same opportunities and a lot didn't even go to lectures so fuck them, their problem.

I actually don't have a lot better to do right now anyway. I'm being paid to be present even if there's no work, I had about two hours a shift in my last job and about four in my current one (though it's pretty intense tbh this time). I know we're all human man, you think it's a waste of time me being on here but I'm watching how the country is working through you lot and figuring out how to make it better. Obviously things ain't getting any better...

So, let's discuss the OP and not resort to personal attacks. As for self-perception, fuck it man I'm not interested in trying to pretend I'm this or that, I'll just give people facts and let them make up their own fucking minds. Don't forget, I don't have to directly put up with the shit in the UK anymore so I could just leave you to it if I thought it didn't matter...

Whining when your job is hard when you received a job description b2b signed a contract is fairly lazy imo. Not gonna say I wouldn't have done the same. It just is.
Complaining about your parents not giving you their money after they spent it on you in the 18+ years before uni is lazy too imo. I don't do that, but if I did I'd think the same of it.
Complaining about doing something like working in a mental health charity office, which should realistically be fulfilling just because you get to help people who need it, is pretty lazy too.

Not having better things to do is laziness too. I'm in the same position all the time.
I don't mean that you being here is a waste of time, it's your time and it's your right to do whatever you want with it, just that it's a manifestation of laziness.
Also, taking people's money for doing no work is laziness, and potentially plagiarism.
They aren't and they won't. They'll only ever be different.

Nah, personal attacks of public displays of ignorance is where it's at imo. If I don't then he won't reflect on himself and he won't change.
Neither do I, and you'd be fair to. I don't discourage that. I'm really just making a point about laziness as an idea. It's not really a bad thing to be lazy imo. Often leads to the simple solutions to the complex problems we face as human people.

Have a good day chap.

jesslem wrote:This is England.


Very Jaydot statements in this video lol.

Biggups people of Shipley, shenanigans like this round there are all too common

jaydot wrote:Stopping immigration would be downright silly, filtering it would be sensible.

How are you going to pick and choose who can or can't come in?

Likewise how are you going to pick and choose investment or imports?

Presumably you want people who can speak English and give them no benefits.. are you equally going to only accept imports and investment from people who speak English and give them massive tax rates?

Hopefully you can see the dilemma, trying to apply filters on immigraton (which isn't based on your personal hate for immigrants) is hard to be consistent with other things, most of UKIP want to apply harsh and often completely off-putting measures on immigration.. but they wouldn't want to put those same measures on foreign investment. Good luck trying to keep competitive, globally, while putting wildly harsh measures on foreign investment.

Plus all your assumptions are on people wanting to come here, which is a myth.. regardless of what you think and what your person experiences are. "All foreigners what to come here and live on benefits" is as realistic as "all women can't drive" and "all black people steal", its a generalisation which isn't true in the real world.

Picking and choosing who can come in isnt too hard tbh. In canada you have to either be a refugee or have at least $10,000 saved up.

Being the head of a commonwealth who fucked up numerous countries makes the filtering process a little harder from an ethical standpoint though.

Seems like he probably did serve teacakes.

jaydot wrote:

wirez wrote:

jaydot wrote:he's low skilled and will happily take a "blue collar" job such as factory work, but he's having trouble finding one because all the Poles have them.

Sounds a bit 80's to me. IF he's willing to work, he will find work. Sales & customer service Call centres with any reputation and chance of sustainability prefer British workers as a rule. If they're illiterate they could help build more call centres and offices if that fails there'll be more job centres opening taking on security guards for pin heads who only need a small bit of cheap experience.

Call Centre work

I'm sure people felt the same way about working in the factories and mills. Working class life wasn't better in the olden days... the pre-war poor didn't all work in utopian boutique industries making arts and crafts, they slogged their fucking guts out in mines and smelting plants. My first job in IT was working on the phones in an AOL call centre, 1 week of training followed by heavy use of scripts. Felt like bullshit and had be in tears at times, but it did me pretty well. I had no qualifications apart from a couple of Es at A Level, but I've carved out a pretty nice career for myself by working really fucking hard and eventually by moving to a place that had the best employment opportunities.

Every human has to learn its generation's rules of engagement and fucking engage. You can't opt out of the game just because you disagree with some of the rules... and whilst it's brilliant to spend our spare time railing and campaigning against the system, you can't wait for it to become perfect before getting involved. Human life lasts 80 years and society will never be perfect.

#deportjaydot2k14

jesslem wrote:Whining when your job is hard when you received a job description b2b signed a contract is fairly lazy imo. Not gonna say I wouldn't have done the same. It just is.
Complaining about your parents not giving you their money after they spent it on you in the 18+ years before uni is lazy too imo. I don't do that, but if I did I'd think the same of it.
Complaining about doing something like working in a mental health charity office, which should realistically be fulfilling just because you get to help people who need it, is pretty lazy too.

Not having better things to do is laziness too. I'm in the same position all the time.
I don't mean that you being here is a waste of time, it's your time and it's your right to do whatever you want with it, just that it's a manifestation of laziness.
Also, taking people's money for doing no work is laziness, and potentially plagiarism.
They aren't and they won't. They'll only ever be different.

Nah, personal attacks of public displays of ignorance is where it's at imo. If I don't then he won't reflect on himself and he won't change.
Neither do I, and you'd be fair to. I don't discourage that. I'm really just making a point about laziness as an idea. It's not really a bad thing to be lazy imo. Often leads to the simple solutions to the complex problems we face as human people.

Have a good day chap.

What are you on about? I'm not complaining about any of what I said except the working for fuck all! read the contract and got fired for threatening to take them to court after lying to me four times about why I wasn't getting paid. Dude the mental health charity was sick as well, I learnt shit loads and I even went to France to work on a homeless commune to see how they finance their accommodation. I don't really see how I'm being ignorant here? I don't see why you're trying so hard to dig at me...