Israel

[topmo3]

bom shiva israeeeel bom shiva israeeeell

[hubb]

(so they can go back to raping and killing eachother, as they did for the past 600 years)

this is not an acceptable opinion dude

fix up

[jrkhnds]

it's true though. the only factor reliably stabilising relationships between the arab states, the only factor providing common ground for any sort of diplomatic process (including Iran) is Israel's existance. and the people in charge know it. apart from the palestinians themselves, nobody gains anything from improving their situation; the palestinians are pawns, enduring their fate so their "allies" can further their own agenda without having to pay the price. and with each european self-proclaimed leftist protesting against everything Israel does without taking a look at the bigger picture, their plot is reaffirmed. the situation is so fucked up, you can't even start to imagine how bad it is. "our muslim brothers" my ass. nobody gives a crap about the palestinian people.

[nowaysj]

won't reply to this thread any further, I'll take the pussy-out.

it's true though. the only factor reliably stabilising relationships between the arab states, the only factor providing common ground for any sort of diplomatic process (including Iran) is Israel's existance. and the people in charge know it. apart from the palestinians themselves, nobody gains anything from improving their situation; the palestinians are pawns, enduring their fate so their "allies" can further their own agenda without having to pay the price. and with each european self-proclaimed leftist protesting against everything Israel does without taking a look at the bigger picture, their plot is reaffirmed. the situation is so fucked up, you can't even start to imagine how bad it is. "our muslim brothers" my ass. nobody gives a crap about the palestinian people.

/ban

[jrkhnds]

I lied.

[OGLemon]

so they can go back to raping and killing eachother, as they did for the past 600 years

good thing Europeans don't rape and kill each other

[OGLemon]

oh wait
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

[nowaysj]

All that to create Israel in the first place.

[jrkhnds]

so they can go back to raping and killing eachother, as they did for the past 600 years

good thing Europeans don't rape and kill each other

never claimed otherwise. good job taking one sentence out of context, blowing it out of proportion, interpreting it in the worst way possible, accusing me of implications I didn't make, and disregarding the rest.


edit: I'm not going all Huntington up your ass.
europe don't fight more than they do (largely) because of institutions
middle-east don't fight more than they already do because of Israel's existance.
instead of hating eachother, they hate Israel. everybody wins.



well, except the palestinians, of course.

[OGLemon]

lol
some people seem to forget that israel is placed amid a lot of countries who'd be glad to nuke 'em

with nukes they don't have.

and tbh Israel treats the palestinians better than a lot of arab countries would...

it's okay to murder as long as everybody else is doing it, or in this case, would do it.

it's still fucked up

indeed

but just blaming israel for everything is so fucking easy and convenient.

I'll blame Israel for Israel's actions.

[topmo3]

poverty tho

[OGLemon]

so they can go back to raping and killing eachother, as they did for the past 600 years

good thing Europeans don't rape and kill each other

never claimed otherwise. good job taking one sentence out of context, blowing it out of proportion, interpreting it in the worst way possible, accusing me of implications I didn't make, and disregarding the rest.

Your right. I did use a illogical fallacy when critiquing your argument.

It is still important to point out that Arabs are not some monolithic group committing violent acts, while Europeans are the enlightened liberal bastions of pacifism.

[topmo3]

iirc in 2006 a finnish UN observer (among others) got killed in a missile attack made by the Israeli forces. they were observing the then very heavy military activity israel was throwing on hizbollah and was conveniently wiped out by a stray missile iirc


found the article
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/j ... ia.israel4

this I remember very well because I was wondering even at so young age that how can they get away with that

[hubb]

it's true though. the only factor reliably stabilising relationships between the arab states, the only factor providing common ground for any sort of diplomatic process (including Iran) is Israel's existance. and the people in charge know it. apart from the palestinians themselves, nobody gains anything from improving their situation; the palestinians are pawns, enduring their fate so their "allies" can further their own agenda without having to pay the price. and with each european self-proclaimed leftist protesting against everything Israel does without taking a look at the bigger picture, their plot is reaffirmed. the situation is so fucked up, you can't even start to imagine how bad it is. "our muslim brothers" my ass. nobody gives a crap about the palestinian people.

im not protesting that side of things. It was more the inherent rape and killing bit...

but you are forgetting one very central thing. Iran used to be quite westernized 30 years ago... 'their cultural agenda' has not been the same for 600 years. They have nukes because the US and Ahmedinejad himself- are crazy. Israel doesn't have any legitimacy apart from being an intence guard dog for the crazy americans in the context of world politics

[jrkhnds]

with nukes they don't have.

yet. (and no, I don't think Israel should own nuclear warheads, either. I don't think any country, institution, corporation ... should)

it's okay to murder as long as everybody else is doing it, or in this case, would do it.

again - never tried to justify Israel's actions or the way they treat the palestinians (...).

but just blaming israel for everything is so fucking easy and convenient.

I'll blame Israel for Israel's actions.

that's the only way, imho. unfortunately, a lot of name-and-shame gets played whenever something's cooking, and often, typically after five minutes of rational discussion at most, people will turn and blame Israel for everything that ever went wrong in the middle-east, which is an obvious and dangerous oversymplification. saying "I hate Israel so much" isn't helping anybody. it's fuelling the fire. imagine I'd go around saying "I hate Syria so much", "I hate Iran so much", "I hate Saudi-Arabia so much" etc. hate is a strong word...

I'll admit, my explanations lack structure and verbal precision, and I present my excuses.

[jrkhnds]

Israel doesn't have any legitimacy apart from being an intence guard dog for the crazy americans in the context of world politics

uh, ok. so what exactly is Iraq's legitimacy?

[OGLemon]

Your position is kind of confusing jrkhnds. Are you neutral, but skeptical of both sides of the argument? with maybe a touch of nihilism

[jrkhnds]

both sides are full of bigot stnuc who use their respective positions to furthen their individual, egoistic agenda. and I fail to understand how people can continue to single out Israel with their critique. when was the last time you read a news article about Hamas cutting off the feet of those who don't want them to place rocket ramps (?) on their roofs? when was the last time anybody protested against the inhumane actions Egypt have taken against palestinian refugees? any protests against Syrian government? against the IS? no?

but you are forgetting one very central thing. Iran used to be quite westernized 30 years ago... 'their cultural agenda' has not been the same for 600 years.

now ask yourself the following: why was Iran so very "westernised" 30 years ago?
oh, and just to make sure everyone's on the same page: you're the one who brought the term "cultural agenda" into play. I never used it, and I would never claim the "raping and killing" was part of a "cutural agenda".

[hubb]

Israel doesn't have any legitimacy apart from being an intence guard dog for the crazy americans in the context of world politics

uh, ok. so what exactly is Iraq's legitimacy?

only the historic context

but tbf saddam was placed via a coop the us was backing ... so if there legitimacy
is in question that could be a part of it..

_ _

I think this is mostly a misunderstanding.. I senced a negative stance towards arabs however abstract and unusable that term is... in the way that it sort of seemed from your post, that you thought that israel in comparison wouldnt' rape and kill people ... i dunno it was weirdly worded on your part (which i should know about )

[hubb]

What?

The point is people SHOULD think there's a difference between countries that have existed for many years and others that was just established on a wim