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hackman wrote:

Genevieve wrote:Many animals have "destroyed" the environment around them before, out of this a new environment grew that other animals and lifeforms learned to co-exist with it.

examples please

Any small island generally

Genevieve wrote:We're not doing anything that other animals haven't done in the past.

erm, so chimpanzees have been cutting down rain forests?

DRTY wrote:

hackman wrote:

Genevieve wrote:Many animals have "destroyed" the environment around them before, out of this a new environment grew that other animals and lifeforms learned to co-exist with it.

examples please

Any small island generally

how have animals destroyed or made an island, that's geological changes, not animal

hackman wrote:

DRTY wrote:

hackman wrote:

Genevieve wrote:Many animals have "destroyed" the environment around them before, out of this a new environment grew that other animals and lifeforms learned to co-exist with it.

examples please

Any small island generally

how have animals destroyed or made an island, that's geological changes, not animal

Maybe im interpreting what he said differently.... I'm thinking when he says destryoed he means that the said life can no longer exist there, it wipes itself out. No life has ever or will ever literally destroy the earth.

An example would be a particular animal evolving to live in a certain very specific way, and then using all resources. Resources run out faster than life can evolve so there comes a point in population when the species crosses an 'event horizon'. So basically wipes itself out.

mother earth is a bitch, she started fuckin with humans and all other species with earthquakes, tsunamis, and all those terrible disasters

mother earth started the war and now that we're winning she calls for a truce ?

DRTY wrote:

hackman wrote:

DRTY wrote:

hackman wrote:

Genevieve wrote:Many animals have "destroyed" the environment around them before, out of this a new environment grew that other animals and lifeforms learned to co-exist with it.

examples please

Any small island generally

how have animals destroyed or made an island, that's geological changes, not animal

Maybe im interpreting what he said differently.... I'm thinking when he says destryoed he means that the said life can no longer exist there, it wipes itself out. No life has ever or will ever literally destroy the earth.

An example would be a particular animal evolving to live in a certain very specific way, and then using all resources. Resources run out faster than life can evolve so there comes a point in population when the species crosses an 'event horizon'. So basically wipes itself out.

oh right, the inverted commas passed me by

nay mind

I agree with Genevieve really.

Humanity is worth saving, but only a select few.

nicenice wrote:
Humanity is worth saving, but only a select few.

I make a fucking good cup of tea. I'm stayin

I don't think its about who is worth saving, but who will be most capable of saving themselves when the time comes.

vulvavibration wrote:very interesting 'essay' genevieve... what do you study?

might try to respond with contra-arguments later... depends on how far i get with my english
tho i wouldn't do it on a scientific base but on a philosophical, as i had this very point touched in some scripts i read recently.

Hah, I'm a slacker, so currently nothing. But I've been informally studying geology, zoology and specifically paleontology since I was 3. Thought dinosaurs were awesome when I was 3 and made my dad read me dinosaur related books and articles and when I was 10 I started getting heavily into geology and evolutionary science. I'm 21 now, so I have 11 years of reading about the planet's past under my belt, including scientific literature and attending lectures.

Basically, what I was saying comes down to: the planet's constantly changing as it is. There has never been a universal 'bad' or 'good' when it comes to the environment, just a 'different', because all animals either 1) die out 2) live 3) adapt in the new environment.

And even if we do cause a mass extinction (which we won't), all we would do is open up new evolutionary niches that will be filled by other animals in a relatively short time. Evolution may be gradual, but speciation occurs sporadically when it needs to happen and new species occur out of old ones relatively quickly (hence the lack of species to species transitional fossils). Species do not adapt if there is nothing that makes them gotta change.

DRTY wrote:

nicenice wrote:
Humanity is worth saving, but only a select few.

I make a fucking good cup of tea. I'm stayin

Fuck tea, tea makes me feel sick. If you can make a banging cup of coffee though...

few weeks ago i dreamed a pandemy killed 99% of the humanity, just a few chosen ones, including me of course survived.
then we went to check out vacant clubs and took their systems and made one huge big soundsystem in a room and had our raves.

am i sick? do i have to ask a psychiatrist for help?

i make a good cup of seed. ya mum loves it!!

Genevieve wrote:Basically, what I was saying comes down to: the planet's constantly changing as it is. There has never been a universal 'bad' or 'good' when it comes to the environment, just a 'different', because all animals either 1) die out 2) live 3) adapt in the new environment.

And even if we do cause a mass extinction (which we won't), all we would do is open up new evolutionary niches that will be filled by other animals in a relatively short time. Evolution may be gradual, but speciation occurs sporadically when it needs to happen and new species occur out of old ones relatively quickly (hence the lack of species to species transitional fossils). Species do not adapt if there is nothing that makes them gotta change.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Even if we managed some huge mass extinction far beyond what we're actually capable of doing, you'd end up with another Cambrian or something, fuck loads of little species evolving and dying all the time, then finally some structure and another dominant lifeform will pop up. The Earth doesn't care that the Dinosaurs aren't here and it won't care when we're not.

The only people with opinions on whether humans are "good" or "bad" are humans!

hackman wrote:

Genevieve wrote:We're not doing anything that other animals haven't done in the past.

erm, so chimpanzees have been cutting down rain forests?

Nope, but new species have introduced new evolutionary pressures that older species couldn't keep up with. The affects of the new environment are the same.

Or when land bridges formed between two distinct continents and several species of continent A found themselves in continent B with no natural predators and vast amounts of resources to profit of (keep in mind, humans aren't the only creature to live well beyond its means. You can see that in your own home when you own goldfish, the simple act of them overfeeding is a good example that shows that we're no different from other animals).

For example, the extinction of the large predatory birds of South America correlates with the sudden emergence of sabretoothed cats from North-America after both continents were suddenly connected. South America was quite balanced but the introduction of a new species changed evolutionary pressures in the environment. Plenty of animals went extinct simply because one new animal was introduced to the equation. What followed was the Amazon rain forest in its current form. The mere act of 'destroying' the environment created the environment that so many people are desperate to save.

I wish folk would stop fucking about with religion and put all that effort and passion into science and space exploration so we can get off this rock and evolve.

ResetTheAtari wrote:I wish folk would stop fucking about with religion and put all that effort and passion into science and space exploration so we can get off this rock and evolve.

ResetTheAtari wrote:I wish folk would stop fucking about with religion and put all that effort and passion into science and space exploration so we can get off this rock and evolve.

And this is why I think that from an evolutionary standpoint, humans are the most incredible animal on Earth: we can consciously survive the demise of our home planet.

All subjective, obviously. But I think the very notion that we can see the end of our planet and way of life and pick up and leave and continue our way of life in a different part of the galaxy is astounding and no other animal is capable of that.

Then again, we could argue that self-domesticated animals like cats are every bit as astounding if not more so because they evolved to live off of us and can profit of our technological advancements like terraformation and space exploration without having to evolve such ridiculously large and exhausting brain and bla bla now it gets waaaay too philosophical.

ResetTheAtari wrote:I wish folk would stop fucking about with religion and put all that effort and passion into science and space exploration so we can get off this rock and evolve.

would be nice!

If the planet does have a personality, maybe its suicidal and we're just its latest attempt to top itself

Also we should probably be putting forward some better cases for the continued existance of humanity, you do all realise this is Parson giving us a last chance to persuade him otherwise before he destroys the world right?