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borrowed wrote: .....the meat packing industry is the evolution of a demand for fresh meat, not the other way around.

so because its good economics it makes it ok? i don't get what you're saying

i wouldnt want to promote this kind of farming, but surely it is just the natural evolution from hunting. im sure thousands of years ago men ran around hitting pigs with big rocks, then moved on to a spear, then a bow and arrow and so on. would it really be any better if we let these animals roam free in 'the wild' only to be gunned down by a machine gun or blown up by a claymore in some battleroyale style killing frenzy? we would still have to kill the same amount of animals to reach the demand for meat, it would just cost a lot more. mccartney can sit there and act like some sort of saint, cause he can afford to buy free range everything and organic fairtrade shit. some people dont have any choice, its either iceland £2 bag of chicken giblets or nothing.

ruckus49 wrote:

borrowed wrote: .....the meat packing industry is the evolution of a demand for fresh meat, not the other way around.

so because its good economics it makes it ok? i don't get what you're saying

More like; its here so live with it, and "rights" and bullshit like that never had anything to do with it.

This is why I hunt. I know exactly where my burger came from. lol.

i couldent hunt, ill eat meat sometimes, less now

eat food. not too much. mostly plants.

give your dog the leftovers poop

I came across this article earlier, interestingly funny
Why vegetarians should eat bacon

overbeb wrote:This is why I hunt. I know exactly where my burger came from. lol.

hunting cows doesn't seem like much of a challenge...

ruckus49 wrote:

collige wrote:People don't care what happens to the animals they eat because they're animals and shock tactics aren't gonna change that.

Also, I want to give a big fuck you to PETA.

because they're animals we have the right to keep them in bondage their entire existence, depriving them of the natural habitat they had for millions of years before we arrived? what gives these factory farms the right to treat sentient beings like an inanimate consumer good?

Because.... we can. That's how nature works. We're an animal higher up in the food chain than them, in fact so much better that we can control their entire lives without them even knowing that it's "odd" (they don't have such a concept). We barely even need to hunt/gather anymore. We're fucking amazing.

By teaching ourselves how to take control of nature, pen and herd animals and farm crops we created modern society. We wouldn't even have this forum if it wasn't for the shift to farming around 10,000 years ago. There might be an argument that modern society has come far enough that we don't need to do it with animals... but it's a new argument and very difficult to be so sure on. Humans kill animals for food and have done since time immemorial, most of our closest relatives do it too... we're hunter/gatherers... it's what we evolved to do. It's why our front teeth are the shape they are!

I never understand why people say veggies are pussies. I mean, if you went and fought a bear and ate it, yeah you'd be pretty manly.
But going to Sainsbury's and buying a chicken (a fucking chicken!) thats been kept in a cage all its life and forcefed until it cant stand up before being slaughtered and packaged -- whats manly about that?

I dunno man, I just get bad vibes from eating shit like that. If I was living in the woods and I had no choice I'd kill and eat animals, thats fine. I have no problem with people eating meat - I have a problem with animals being used as a commodity or a product.

magma wrote: By teaching ourselves how to take control of nature, pen and herd animals and farm crops we created modern society. We wouldn't even have this forum if it wasn't for the shift to farming around 10,000 years ago. There might be an argument that modern society has come far enough that we don't need to do it with animals... but it's a new argument and very difficult to be so sure on. Humans kill animals for food and have done since time immemorial, most of our closest relatives do it too... we're hunter/gatherers... it's what we evolved to do. It's why our front teeth are the shape they are!

We evolved to eat a little bit of meat, not nearly so much as we eat today. Lions can eat meat all day everyday and be fine, but if you did that you'd have a heart attack.


And fuck man, this "we've evolvolved to do it its fine" argument is so clearly full of holes - we evolved to beat each other's brains in with rocks, we evolved to pollute the air and the water, etc etc. The point is that, as you say, we evolved to the top of the food chain, therefore we have a responsibility not to go around fucking shit up. We have brains and morals and intelligence, but it seems like you're sidestepping all of that and saying we're merely a product of our evolution.

Apologies for the poor writing

therzbm wrote:mccartney can sit there and act like some sort of saint, cause he can afford to buy free range everything and organic fairtrade shit. some people dont have any choice, its either iceland £2 bag of chicken giblets or nothing.

Or a 65p bag of chickpeas that'll feed you for a week

im sure if plants could fight back and run away they would, they dont even get a choice in this. someone please think of the plants.

overbeb wrote:This is why I hunt. I know exactly where my burger came from. lol.

Which is worse? killing off animals yourself or buying them once they`re dead?
But wait, you do it in a humane manner with a rifle that has a high powered scope.
That`s fair right?

Why not give the deer a fighting chance and let him take a few swings at you first before you blow his face off.

Slaughterhouses are no better than recreational hunters I`m afraid.
It`s your choice, don`t get me wrong.
You ever thought about coming to South Africa and killing a doped up lion?

cityzen wrote:McCartney grates me so much and i'm not even sure why. Just one of those things I suppose.
I don't eat meat so whateverthefuckwhatever.

probably because he is famous for no good reason

capo ultra wrote:

cityzen wrote:McCartney grates me so much and i'm not even sure why. Just one of those things I suppose.
I don't eat meat so whateverthefuckwhatever.

probably because he is famous for no good reason

Kochari wrote:

capo ultra wrote:

cityzen wrote:McCartney grates me so much and i'm not even sure why. Just one of those things I suppose.
I don't eat meat so whateverthefuckwhatever.

probably because he is famous for no good reason

exactly my point

Kochari wrote:

magma wrote: By teaching ourselves how to take control of nature, pen and herd animals and farm crops we created modern society. We wouldn't even have this forum if it wasn't for the shift to farming around 10,000 years ago. There might be an argument that modern society has come far enough that we don't need to do it with animals... but it's a new argument and very difficult to be so sure on. Humans kill animals for food and have done since time immemorial, most of our closest relatives do it too... we're hunter/gatherers... it's what we evolved to do. It's why our front teeth are the shape they are!

We evolved to eat a little bit of meat, not nearly so much as we eat today. Lions can eat meat all day everyday and be fine, but if you did that you'd have a heart attack.


And fuck man, this "we've evolvolved to do it its fine" argument is so clearly full of holes - we evolved to beat each other's brains in with rocks, we evolved to pollute the air and the water, etc etc. The point is that, as you say, we evolved to the top of the food chain, therefore we have a responsibility not to go around fucking shit up. We have brains and morals and intelligence, but it seems like you're sidestepping all of that and saying we're merely a product of our evolution.

Apologies for the poor writing

Writing was fine, but I think you're generalising my points a bit. Human nature and behaviour is complex. We've evolved over millions of years to be able to eat meat and the societal evolution of farming has created the world we live in - without eating meat we literally wouldn't be where we are today.

I understand it's now possible to create a moral question over it nowadays. We can get by as vegetarians or vegans, but do we have any obligation to? Just because we're the only animal that can conceive of such an idea? Isn't also invented? Why should we suddenly decide that we're not going to use the animals we've spent 10,000 years breeding into the perfect farm creatures? Should we let all the breeds of cattle we've invented (wild cows don't look anything like Jerseys!) go extinct? Are we going to support "natural" herds of our fake animals so that we can all feel better about ourselves? What difference would it really make?

I can't think of many more satisfying experiences as a human than my friend raising and eating his pigs this year. I didn't get involved too much as I don't live nearby at the moment, but I grew up around farmland with friends who farmed cattle and poultry (free range) so I'm not especially squeamish about the killing part... the fact that he'd raised his own food, kept them in heated pens when the weather got cold, got the vet out if they looked sick/hurt and, finally had them killed humanely and made into the tastiest cuts of pork I've ever touched... it was incredibly "real". The pigs lived happy lives (happy as pigs in shit, rather literally) and one day they didn't have a life anymore... I don't think they were upset about it because they didn't have brains anymore. His kid is 2 1/2yrs and absolutely loves all the animals around him... but he also gets excited to find out that the tasty roast his Mum's cooking came from the sow he was oinking at yesterday.

I don't believe you should eat meat if you're not capable of killing an animal... but I do think it's perfectly natural behaviour.

War and fighting is natural too, sure. It doesn't always seem "positive", but if we didn't live with the threat of getting punched/jailed if we act like a dick and getting invaded if we ALL act like dicks, the world would be a very different place.

We have evolved in incredibly complex ways both physically and socially over the last 100,000 years... it's just not that simple to decide we're suddenly "above" our nature. I'm perfectly happy to accept other people's choices, but when challenged on my personal morality I'm more than comfortable.

Electric_Head wrote:

overbeb wrote:This is why I hunt. I know exactly where my burger came from. lol.

Which is worse? killing off animals yourself or buying them once they`re dead?
But wait, you do it in a humane manner with a rifle that has a high powered scope.
That`s fair right?

Why not give the deer a fighting chance and let him take a few swings at you first before you blow his face off.

Slaughterhouses are no better than recreational hunters I`m afraid.
It`s your choice, don`t get me wrong.
You ever thought about coming to South Africa and killing a doped up lion?

What? Why not let the animal take a swing? That is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. You want to kill something and eat it. You have an advantage of having a gun. You use it. Why does it have to be an even match?