Dubstepforum.com

Medway Studios wrote:Main thing would be a good quality limiter so you can get an idea of how the mix will sound once mastered. Aim for 4db or so there so it's not over done. That will be a good guide for the mixdown as if the mix isn't loud enough then it's usually down to the sounds/arrangement etc..

I'd stay away from enhancers, do that type of work in the mix itself.

A little but of compression on the mix to glue it can be good too.

Just nothing too drastic so that mix decisions are being dealt with on the master instead of where they should be, in the mix.

I disagree with the "nothing to drastic part", I go for a fairly lofi, crushed sound when I'm making Hip-Hop (and only slightly less so otherwise) and I usually put some heavy tape compression/saturation and analogue modeling plug-ins on the master because if I put a Vintage Warmer or a Channel Strip on every track, my cpu would be fucked at, like, 5 tracks. It's all about what you're going for.

Primitiv wrote:Hey everyone,

What sort of effects should i be placing on the master channel, as in EQ or maximising, or stereo widening?

Thx.

SOUNDGOODIZER.

Gunsmoke wrote:

Primitiv wrote:Hey everyone,

What sort of effects should i be placing on the master channel, as in EQ or maximising, or stereo widening?

Thx.

SOUNDGOODIZER.

Sinestepper wrote:

Gunsmoke wrote:

Primitiv wrote:Hey everyone,

What sort of effects should i be placing on the master channel, as in EQ or maximising, or stereo widening?

Thx.

SOUNDGOODIZER.

Strictly speaking processes on the master bus are not 'effects' they are processes.
Effects are usually defined as chorus, delay, reverb and flanger etc.

I would be more concerned with creating a good mix with the correct gain structure.
This is plenty to chew on, until you can do this adding anything to the master bus is an unnecessary complication.

Main thing would be a good quality limiter so you can get an idea of how the mix will sound once mastered.

I do not agree with mixing into a limiter, this would mean your channel gain structure is not correctly set up which is starting off on the wrong foot.

http://www.masteringmastering.co.uk/gainstructure.html

Additionally, to second guess what a professional mastering engineer will do in terms of limiting is probably misleading. If you are sending it off for mastering you would be better off adhering to leaving plenty of headroom on the master bus and if you are 'self finalizing' you should do this is a completely separate procedure. It will require different listening techniques.

cheers

Sharmaji wrote:^actually since saturation rounds off peaks, it definitely does affect dynamics. distortion is the world's best limiter.

You're right. But lowering the dynamics requires a serious distortion amount.

safeandsound wrote:ing anything to the master bus is an unnecessary complication.

Main thing would be a good quality limiter so you can get an idea of how the mix will sound once mastered.

I do not agree with mixing into a limiter, this would mean your channel gain structure is not correctly set up which is starting off on the wrong foot.

http://www.masteringmastering.co.uk/gainstructure.html

Additionally, to second guess what a professional mastering engineer will do in terms of limiting is probably misleading. If you are sending it off for mastering you would be better off adhering to leaving plenty of headroom on the master bus and if you are 'self finalizing' you should do this is a completely separate procedure. It will require different listening techniques.

cheers

There's no harm in having a few db of limiting to get a rough idea of what's going on, you can always a/b it off and on at points to make sure you're on the right track. Mostly mastering engineers are going to be doing something similar just with more care. And good luck convincing today's dance/electronic producers not to ad any mastering stuff on at least for a test.

The idea is if you only do a few db of limiting you can safely take that off and the mix will not change too much and therefore all things being equal fine to work on. This is opposed to guys who do loads of multi or heavy limiting to get a loud sound.

Having a moderate limiting setting here does not discount gain staging elsewhere in the mix, those rules would still apply.

But most pro producers including myself always mix with mastering stuff on in the beginning or soon after as it's part of your sound when making this music so helps to hear everything in context, no reason to wait.

What's worse is when you don't have it on, then apply it later in mastering only to discover the mix can't get loud without extreme processing. When you have some rough mastering on initially it helps spot those problems early on, like a bad kick sample or bassline. This way the production and mastering work together holistically.

I do not have a problem with people using a limiter to protect digital zero. (although this demonstrates incorrect gain structure as peaks would ideally be much lower and not near 0dBFS)

What's worse is when you don't have it on, then apply it later in mastering only to discover the mix can't get loud without extreme processing

A limiter is an extreme dynamic process and if you mix into one it will influence your mix decisions. If you know your track will be professionally mastered it is best to not mix into a limiter, the mastering engineer will determine where the best trade off between increased perceived level and the detriment that creeps up. A limiter is a single tool which will be used in conjunction with many chained processes by a mastering engineer and to second guess what (by applying a single tool = limiter) a mastering engineer may use does not make much sense. A simple eq is a good example of a process which will have a great bearing on how a limiter reacts.

The best approach as has historically been the case is to learn the techniques that allow you to create a great, spacious, punchy and dynamic mix without a limiter. Many people will tickle the stereo master bus with their favourite compressor which is fine because it is relatively benign if a few dB of gain reduction is used.

good luck convincing today's dance/electronic producers not to ad any mastering stuff on at least for a test.

People can and do what they wish, some people wish to learn others don't. Simply because some people do not comprehend gain structure (and many do) does not mean any experienced audio engineer should compromise the explanation on a public board.The reason people get their audio mastered is the trust in a professional, objective response. This response/correction is based on a reproduction system and room that is of greater fidelity, dynamics and frequency range than that on which it was mixed. To apply limiting and mix into it is compounding potential inaccuracies in the mix speakers and room. There will be few people shaving a dB or 2 off the top and I think it is starting off on the wrong footing.

It is different if you are self finalizing as you do what you wish in order to meet your desired end results.

Mixing and mastering are 2 very different processes (despite what the internetz would lead you to believe) and I am not convinced the word 'holistic' can be used in this way in a professional context. It might be best confined to 'self finalizing' which does not have the benefit of accuracy, experience and objectivity where you do the 'whole' job yourself on a compromised monitoring system.

cheers

I often mix into Density mkii.

And I sometimes use a bandaxall eq to add sweetness, although I've been told it's better to send mixes to the M.E. too dull than too bright.

Psp vintage Warmer all day son. That shit is great. Really glues stuff together, and makes mixes sound lovely. EQ should be very subtle; just to polish different parts so they mesh well (it's a similar concept to sending all your drums down a buss and applying an EQ/Comp on them do they all sound "together", except this is more then one instrument)
Just don't be stupid and brickwall your mix, I mean you want to see transients don't you?

I suppose the people who say "don't put anything on the master channel" aren't aware Rafiohead had OK Computer put through a plate reverb.

People that say don't put anything on the master usually say that to people that shouldn't be putting anything on the master, if you git meh.

JoeOsoDopke wrote:I suppose the people who say "don't put anything on the master channel" aren't aware Rafiohead had OK Computer put through a plate reverb.

I told a guy not to slice his ear off once, obviously I wasn't aware that Picasso did that and he was a great artist.


Average Dubstep producer =/= Radiohead

I think even Guetta is aware Radiohead sleep in a spring reverb and that guy's a douche.

van gogh

Ss the point.