Dubstepforum.com

Adam Oracle wrote:[quote="ive seen people using timecoded cds and they dont take their eyes of the screen its pretty shocking, serato/tracktor dont sound as good as vinyl aswell

well, like i said that sounds like a pretty crazy way to DJ when its your ears that are the ultimate reference point. The whole vinyl sounding better than serato/tracktor thing is a seperate discussion altogether to the original OP to be honest. [/quote]

just thought id get that in there aswell though, its so true if your sober at a gig and everyone plays digital then someone steps up playing vinyl you can tell the difference

I know man its just instant muddy distortion.

this thread makes me want to cry...

first of all the sound quality is so much better and quality shows a fuckload on a big rig, if you play a 128kbps on your most likely cracked version of tracktor or serato then you can instantly tell..why would you not want the best quality sound?

secondly track selection, if your actually going to shops to get a hard copy of music you tend to wade through the shit and get only decent tunes..the mentality of just getting digital copys makes you think less and you settle for OKish tunes which no doubt will end up ruining mixes and loseing the vibes

Beat matching is not hard with dubstep so this should not be an issue

If you dont use discs your not a disc jockey

and it is more rewarding to spin vinyl

Sure going to a club should be about the music and the journey for the club goer but for the DJ there should be an element of skill as well, if anyone can just get up and auto sync tracks then the market will get over saturated with younguns chasing the dream and its gunna be harder for the actual DJs to make a living because the whole experience becomes de-valued.

I dont mind if people want to use a controller for their own enjoyment at home or playing to their mates but keep it out the clubs

JTMMusicuk wrote:this thread makes me want to cry...

your reply makes me want to cry

JTMMusicuk wrote:first of all the sound quality is so much better and quality shows a fuckload on a big rig, if you play a 128kbps on your most likely cracked version of tracktor or serato then you can instantly tell..why would you not want the best quality sound?

Yeah, 128 sucks. But 320 sounds a shitload better than vinyl. More clarity, dynamic range etc. Plus you can fit thousands of mp3's in the space one record would take up.

JTMMusicuk wrote:secondly track selection, if your actually going to shops to get a hard copy of music you tend to wade through the shit and get only decent tunes..the mentality of just getting digital copys makes you think less and you settle for OKish tunes which no doubt will end up ruining mixes and loseing the vibes

Total and utter nonsense. I listen to music i like, that hasn't changed in the past 30 years. When i bought records, cassettes, cd's or mp3's its always been the same decision making process.

JTMMusicuk wrote:Beat matching is not hard with dubstep so this should not be an issue

Maybe, but why not use the tools that are available in 2012? Its not the 80's anymore.

JTMMusicuk wrote:If you dont use discs your not a disc jockey

Yeah sure, and if you don't play a musical instrument then you can't produce music.

JTMMusicuk wrote:and it is more rewarding to spin vinyl

Surely its more rewarding to have a good time and play music you love, to a crowd that enjoy it. A revolving plastic disc does not interest me, having a good time does.

JTMMusicuk wrote:Sure going to a club should be about the music and the journey for the club goer but for the DJ there should be an element of skill as well, if anyone can just get up and auto sync tracks then the market will get over saturated with younguns chasing the dream and its gunna be harder for the actual DJs to make a living because the whole experience becomes de-valued.

I dont mind if people want to use a controller for their own enjoyment at home or playing to their mates but keep it out the clubs

I know dozens and dozens of people who can mix. It took me a few hours to learn to beatmatch, but i'm 2 years into learning production and not even close to making the tunes i want to make. Lets face the facts - people that can mix are ten a penny, people that can make amazing music are pretty rare.

So many things wrong with the above post, sounds like you feel your opinions are facts.

For a start 320kbps mp3 have no where near as much information in them an vinyl, therefore less dynamic range and quality

And saying that if you dont play an instrument you cant produce music is not the same as what i said, to label someone who uses auto sync and a controller a DJ is like saying someone who can whistle a tune but doesnt have a DAW or any electrical equipment is an EDM musician

Sure its up to you whether you like vinyl or not but what im saying is there should be an element of skill, theres more to DJing then just beatmatching

I dont understand how you dont think it is more rewarding to do something more skillful and be appreciated for it rather than just click a sync button and take all the credit for it, if your not going to put any work into it why are you there in the first place? just stick a premade mix on, call yourself david guetta and move on with your life

VirtualMark wrote:But 320 sounds a shitload better than vinyl. More clarity, dynamic range etc.

JTMMusicuk wrote:For a start 320kbps mp3 have no where near as much information in them an vinyl, therefore less dynamic range and quality

And saying that if you dont play an instrument you cant produce music is not the same as what i said, to label someone who uses auto sync and a controller a DJ is like saying someone who can whistle a tune but doesnt have a DAW or any electrical equipment is an EDM musician

Sure its up to you whether you like vinyl or not but what im saying is there should be an element of skill, theres more to DJing then just beatmatching

I dont understand how you dont think it is more rewarding to do something more skillful and be appreciated for it rather than just click a sync button and take all the credit for it, if your not going to put any work into it why are you there in the first place? just stick a premade mix on, call yourself david guetta and move on with your life

what do you mean by information? 320kbps is better than CD quality. Also the quality of vinyl will deteriorate over time through use which will affect the characteristics of the sound?

The Dynamic range of a track is surely influenced by the production and mastering process?

320kbps is not better than cd quality
first of cd quality is uncompressed, mp3 is compress to hell and back

my brain hurts with the idiocy and misinformation just in this last page
also comparing an analog medium to digital will never work
if you want to start having an argument of quality of sound of vinyl vs digital, start by using uncompressed formats aka not mp3, but wav or flac

Thankyou deadly for stepping in

yeah FLAC is the only close contender for vinyl at the moment (as far as im aware of)

JTMMusicuk wrote:For a start 320kbps mp3 have no where near as much information in them an vinyl, therefore less dynamic range and quality

That's really not true. For a start we're comparing apples to oranges, 1's and 0's to analog. Anyhow, its a well known fact that vinyl's dynamic range can't touch that of cd or mp3. Its not a matter of opinion, the information is out there and is nothing more than a scientific fact.

JTMMusicuk wrote:And saying that if you dont play an instrument you cant produce music is not the same as what i said, to label someone who uses auto sync and a controller a DJ is like saying someone who can whistle a tune but doesnt have a DAW or any electrical equipment is an EDM musician

I'm just saying that the day has long since passed when you actually have to spin vinyl to be considered a dj.

JTMMusicuk wrote:I dont understand how you dont think it is more rewarding to do something more skillful and be appreciated for it rather than just click a sync button and take all the credit for it, if your not going to put any work into it why are you there in the first place? just stick a premade mix on, call yourself david guetta and move on with your life

I wouldn't want to go as far as making a pre mixed cd, but all i'm saying is that it takes a lot to make good music, and i have a lot of respect for any producer who has succeeded in doing that. More respect than i have for a dj who just plays other peoples music, as i said i know a ton of people who can mix pretty well.

And personally for me, i want to focus on making music. If i eventually make good enough tunes to play out, then i'll deal with dj skills next. If i have to use virtual dj or ableton at first, then so be it. The priority will be on playing good tunes.

deadly habit wrote:320kbps is not better than cd quality
first of cd quality is uncompressed, mp3 is compress to hell and back

my brain hurts with the idiocy and misinformation just in this last page
also comparing an analog medium to digital will never work
if you want to start having an argument of quality of sound of vinyl vs digital, start by using uncompressed formats aka not mp3, but wav or flac

Yeah its definitely inferior to cd, i didn't say otherwise. But 320 is indistinguishable to cd in all listening tests i have ever seen.

As for comparing analog to digital, its possible to measure such things as dynamic range, signal to noise ratio, frequency response etc. For a start, the bass has to be reduced when pressed to vinyl, then boosted again through a pre amp. So the quality you hear greatly depends on your equipment. And the other obvious point is that every time you play a record, it degrades it.

Digital doesn't have this problem, although it has its own set of limitations. There's tons of info on this subject, this is an interesting read:

The dynamic range of vinyl, when evaluated as the ratio of a peak sinusoidal amplitude to the peak noise density at that sine wave frequency, is somewhere around 80 dB. Under theoretically ideal conditions, this could perhaps improve to 120 dB. The dynamic range of CDs, when evaluated on a frequency-dependent basis and performed with proper dithering and oversampling, is somewhere around 150 dB. Under no legitimate circumstances will the dynamic range of vinyl ever exceed the dynamic range of CD, under any frequency, given the wide performance gap and the physical limitations of vinyl playback. More discussion at Hydrogenaudio.

your version of scientific fact perplexes me ... how old are you can i ask?

Marcus wrote:So many things wrong with the above post, sounds like you feel your opinions are facts.

Virtual Mark is famous for spouting opinion as fact.

VirtualMark wrote:

The dynamic range of vinyl, when evaluated as the ratio of a peak sinusoidal amplitude to the peak noise density at that sine wave frequency, is somewhere around 80 dB. Under theoretically ideal conditions, this could perhaps improve to 120 dB. The dynamic range of CDs, when evaluated on a frequency-dependent basis and performed with proper dithering and oversampling, is somewhere around 150 dB. Under no legitimate circumstances will the dynamic range of vinyl ever exceed the dynamic range of CD, under any frequency, given the wide performance gap and the physical limitations of vinyl playback. More discussion at Hydrogenaudio.

Irrelevant when dynamic range of tunes these days is about 10dB.

Besides MP3s remove frequencies not dynamic range.

Let alone the artefacts you get from timestetching or even pitch shifting digital data ie when you dj with them

Geez.

heh i'd also love to see a polling on the average control groups for these studies, and how many consider ipods and the included earbuds quality listening stations
it's hard not to tell the difference when all you listen to is compressed formats on a poor listening device

JTMMusicuk wrote:your version of scientific fact perplexes me ... how old are you can i ask?

33. And the points about dynamic range, signal to noise rations etc are all readily available with a quick search. If you'd been bothered to look you'd see i'm not just making things up as i go along. Every format has its own set of limitations, advantages and disadvantages. And its a generally accepted fact that the limitations of analog outweigh the limitations of digital, hence why digital media is much more prevalent today.

paradigm x wrote:Virtual Mark is famous for spouting opinion as fact.

I tend to spout fact as fact - as usual you just jump into a topic, have a pop at me, then disappear without backing up any of your accusations. Perhaps you can point out to me which part i've stated as fact? Or are you just pulling your usual nonsense?

deadly habit wrote:heh i'd also love to see a polling on the average control groups for these studies, and how many consider ipods and the included earbuds quality listening stations
it's hard not to tell the difference when all you listen to is compressed formats on a poor listening device

As would i. I'd imagine the blind tests have been performed on a wide range of systems over the years. A lot of what we hear is subjective anyhow - things like gold plated speaker wires and people thinking they can hear a difference. Our own brains have been proven to fool us.

Still, the mp3 compression algorithms work very well, i've yet to see a test where people can tell 320.

VirtualMark wrote:I tend to spout fact as fact - as usual you just jump into a topic, have a pop at me, then disappear without backing up any of your accusations. Perhaps you can point out to me which part i've stated as fact? Or are you just pulling your usual nonsense?

See below. I see where youre coming from, and ive said it before, i dont mean to be personal, but you have a habit of stating opinion as fact.

EDIT: to clarify, i generally lurk a lot these days but jump in when compelled. Your classic contributions to the noise music and analogue threads, just for example, made me lol/cry, so i waded in. Nothing personal.

VirtualMark wrote:Yeah, 128 sucks. But 320 sounds a shitload better than vinyl. More clarity, dynamic range etc.

since you asked. Jsut the first thing that popped up.

'Better' can never be a fact, by definition. Its subjective.

Your really pulling at just a tiny detail that i made to try and say im wrong about everything, if your not actually doing anything difficult when your on stage then whats the point in being there at all..its like a guitarist getting up and playing one note over and over..people dont want to see something that they could easily do themselves without any practise if theyre paying £15 quid on the door