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That and they seem to have shit work ethics and don't seem to think you need to learn anything beyond the curriculum, and that the learning (or need to continue to learn to stay viable in the ever evolving tech sector) magically stops once you get that piece of paper.
Most quality programmers are always learning, or have their own projects they're always working on outside of work/school.
Hell my "light" reading atm is the OpenGL redbook .

garethom wrote:my cyber defense is punching all known nerds with access to computers

They cry easily...

like i say on all these threads, the productive capacity to feed and clothe and house everyone on the planet (including children in bangladesh) exists, it's capitalism that prevents that.

what is structured such that children starve unless they work for pennies making shit we don't in any way need?

capitalism. fuck yeah.

dubfordessert wrote:like i say on all these threads, the productive capacity to feed and clothe and house everyone on the planet (including children in bangladesh) exists, it's capitalism that prevents that.

what is structured such that children starve unless they work for pennies making shit we don't in any way need?

capitalism. fuck yeah.

The irony, given Genevieve's libertatarianism, is that there's a much stronger argument against western intervention in what is now Bangladesh and that's the fact it exists. Created as East Pakistan during partition of India it's problems stemmed for being jute rich and politically poor which lead to the Awami leagues push for independence in the 1970's.

deadly habit wrote:They also want good programmers, not just low grade fresh grads with CS degrees who just started coding when they entered their degree program.
Where wants Cisco certified guys? I need to renew, but all my certs and experience didn't do me much good even getting in doors a few years back.
On the flip side I almost got recruited by one of the local Microsoft guys when my dad's friend who lived across from him brought me up as a teen and introduced me to him.
He was expecting a college age kid and instead got a 14 year old with a mohawk at the time who had taught himself a bunch and I primarily impressed him that I focused on ASM at the time.
The guy tossed me a whole bunch of programming books even got me into a couple cert programs on the cheap at the time.
The best way to get noticed as a programmer is to actually make something, like an artist that helps serve as your portfolio.
A lot of the coding jobs going overseas are for the equivalent of assembly line worker style coders. The ones that take skill have always been a competitive market.
Even going back for my degree now at 30 (don't need it, but makes getting your foot in the door a hell of a lot easier), I see a lot of kids who just are taking CS for a degree, know nothing but Java (with no real interest in programming or languages outside of the curriculum), and think they'll have a job waiting for them. It's pretty damn sad.

yup. as with all learning, you have to go beyond the curriculum. that shouldn't be hard if it is something you are passionate about. you hit the nail on the head with the fact that a degree opens doors. all about having completed projects on that resume to keep that door open though!

dubfordessert wrote:like i say on all these threads, the productive capacity to feed and clothe and house everyone on the planet (including children in bangladesh) exists, it's capitalism that prevents that.

Exactly this. There's enough of everything for almost everyone's basic needs to be taken care of. It's just not profitable.

mks wrote:

wub wrote:+1 on the Cisco stuff...if you have a CCNA/CCNP you'll never be out of work.

I'm currently studying for my CCNA. Then the CCNP.

About the hacking thing, it actually is creating a huge market for information security which I am also studying right now. I just did a cyber wargames exercise on Wednesday and I am competing in the first round of the National Cyber League tomorrow, a cyber defense tournament.

I just passed my CCNA exam today. It feels good, it's been a long tough road to get this cert.

mks wrote:

mks wrote:

wub wrote:+1 on the Cisco stuff...if you have a CCNA/CCNP you'll never be out of work.

I'm currently studying for my CCNA. Then the CCNP.

About the hacking thing, it actually is creating a huge market for information security which I am also studying right now. I just did a cyber wargames exercise on Wednesday and I am competing in the first round of the National Cyber League tomorrow, a cyber defense tournament.

I just passed my CCNA exam today. It feels good, it's been a long tough road to get this cert.

Hell yeh man!!! Super happy for you!
Hopefully everything works out! Anyone knocked on your door yet?

mks wrote:

mks wrote:

wub wrote:+1 on the Cisco stuff...if you have a CCNA/CCNP you'll never be out of work.

I'm currently studying for my CCNA. Then the CCNP.

About the hacking thing, it actually is creating a huge market for information security which I am also studying right now. I just did a cyber wargames exercise on Wednesday and I am competing in the first round of the National Cyber League tomorrow, a cyber defense tournament.

I just passed my CCNA exam today. It feels good, it's been a long tough road to get this cert.

Good shit man, glad to hear it.

mks wrote:

mks wrote:

wub wrote:+1 on the Cisco stuff...if you have a CCNA/CCNP you'll never be out of work.

I'm currently studying for my CCNA. Then the CCNP.

About the hacking thing, it actually is creating a huge market for information security which I am also studying right now. I just did a cyber wargames exercise on Wednesday and I am competing in the first round of the National Cyber League tomorrow, a cyber defense tournament.

I just passed my CCNA exam today. It feels good, it's been a long tough road to get this cert.

Congrats, mate.

That's pretty much a job for life guaranteed now

mks wrote:

mks wrote:

wub wrote:+1 on the Cisco stuff...if you have a CCNA/CCNP you'll never be out of work.

I'm currently studying for my CCNA. Then the CCNP.

About the hacking thing, it actually is creating a huge market for information security which I am also studying right now. I just did a cyber wargames exercise on Wednesday and I am competing in the first round of the National Cyber League tomorrow, a cyber defense tournament.

I just passed my CCNA exam today. It feels good, it's been a long tough road to get this cert.

Nice work mate - welcome to the carousel!

idontreallygiveashit wrote:

Jhonny2x4 wrote: So if you love IT

Big ups mks

scspkr99 wrote:

Genevieve wrote:Outsourcing isn't a 'problem'. It gives jobs to countries with often a far poorer population (poor people need jobs too you know) and to top it all off. Cheaper products = more people can affoird them. Unless you're an elitist who only thinks rich people should have stuff.

somewhat disingenuous when the people who's jobs are outsourced can't buy them. .

When they're outsourced, they are because production for them is cheaper. Which in turn means that prices are cheaper because consumers want the lowest price. And if people can't buy the cheapest version of that product, then they definitely wouldn't if the production wasn't outsourced either because the price goes up. Then, they might have more money, but how much would that money be worth?

People get too hung up on numbers. I really didn't bother with sd5's thread about the working poor and yada yada. because it's too much about arbitrary numbers on a paycheck (that represent an inflationary currency that has tremendously decreased in value over the last 100 years). All raising the minimum wage would do is inhibit employers from hiring more people and getting rid of the incentive to start a business in the first place because it's less profitable, which also means less people being hired by a business (hence why walmart actively lobbied FOR increasing the minimum wage. They and mega-corps like them can afford to spend that much money on labor, their smaller competition can't).

Real pricing (including the price of labor, which is what wage is) is more than just a number. It's a very important indicator that lets participants in a market know where resources need to go. Distortion of that mechanism is like putting a blindfold on a sharpshooter because you like the color black.

Less symbols and more wealth plz. I don't need to necessarily live in a society with a high minimum wage. I don't care about that. I'd rather live in a society where very little currency can get you a lot of wealth and where saving said currency is beneficial in the long run

Old threeaaaaad

My point was that it's possible to have a problem with outsourcing without being an elitist who thinks only rich people should have stuff. I'd contend that people who have lost their jobs to outsourcing could argue they'd have been able to buy the more expensive product while working but can't afford the cheaper since losing their jobs.

I have no problem with new jobs being created wherever, poor people need jobs too. I have issues where jobs are positioned to exploit weaker health and safety legislation but it seems reasonable for companies to position on cost and comply with local standards at a minimum.

I do think the contribution the existing workforce has made to a companies success has to count. While there should be flexibility replacing positions moving entire functions or factories should be considered proportionate to the need to move and the commitment the existing workforce has made. If the option is to lose the job or move it move it.

I'm less convinced that reducing costs lowers prices, I get that lowering costs theoretically shifts the supply curve right but I don't know that apple has to pass on an extra $100 cost of pretty much any of their top box stuff and I don't know how much that impacts the amount of units sold in any case. This isn't an argument against apple having their products made wherever though because people earning lower wages need jobs too.

wub wrote:That's pretty much a job for life guaranteed now

Haha, said like that is a good thing.

YOU WILL BE IN A TAN COLORED 8'x8' CUBICLE UNDER A DUSTY AIR VENT AND 6.4k COLOR TEMP PULSATING FLORESCENTS FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Good job man! The owners will let you inside!

wub wrote:

LACE wrote:you're so hating on me wub. so much H8

I've got a BSc Hons, no hate here gurlfrend

southstar wrote:Whats the standard one? BA?

BA - Bachelor Arts (inc. humanties type stuff)
BSc - Bachelor Science (techy stuff)

You get the Hons afterwards if you've done a 4yr course w/ work placement (I think, it's been a while).


Couple of my mates did History w/ Political Science (not my bag, but they seemed to enjoy it) at different universities, one got a BA and one got a BSc for the same degree so not quite sure how the classification works in some places.

Yup I'm also in team B. Sc! Up here the job prospects are pretty bad too, pretty much the best job you can hope for with one of those is grad school

You get honours by undertaking original research.

BA is application and interpretation, BSc is just being scientific

I've got a PHD so I'm pretty lucky.

Genevieve wrote: And if I was a kid, I'd rather work and get paid than starve or sell my body. And yes, out there those ARE the only other options.

Every kid in the developing world that doesn't work only has the option to starve or sell their body?!

test recordings wrote:You get honours by undertaking original research

I always thought it was because of a placement year in industry, nice one